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I’ve paid attention to this before (recently!) and it is a remarkably high percentage of people who use turn signals when needed to signal their intent to turn. Certainly way more than half! Just good drivers in my area I guess.

I am curious what the actual numbers are.
Heh. Back in the really long ago, when I was a fresh-faced naval trainee in Tennessee, a bunch of us were given a lecture by a senior petty officer about dos and don’ts in the area. Some of it was pretty straightforward, like where the USO was in Memphis; other bits were warnings about what sections of Memphis were off-limits, and so on.

But the guy had a warning for us about some odd driving habits by the locals, as follows:

Say one is waiting to turn left onto a busy two-lane street. Here comes a line of cars, all with their right-turn blinkers on and, due to the narrowness of the road and opposing traffic, they’re all slowing down. The first guy in line turns right onto your street.

One might think that it’d be safe to pull out and turn left, since all those other cars are signaling a similar turn. One would be wrong. The first guy turns-and the rest cancel the turn signal and accelerate on by.

Apparently as a courtesy to the cars in the line, when the fellow in front is signaling, the rest would signal, too, to let following cars know what’s going on, so that speeding cars coming up from the rear would at least see a flashing light, useful in the fog, I guess. But there had been some pretty spectacular accidents when an out-of-towner, relatively new driver misapprehended what all those other cars were doing and stuck his car’s nose out for a turn. Hence, the warning.

Wonder if FSDS has to figure that?
 
I have a right turn at a stop sign to leave our neighborhood. It seems to be that FSD takes far longer to proceed if no one is coming from the left than is does is there is someone coming but far enough away to safely proceed. It is as if a moving car is quicker to see than no car. This sort of makes sense, but is odd. Nothing is hard to see than something?
I assume the system is just repeating its training. It wasn't shown many examples of proceeding without any traffic, so it has low confidence as to whether or not to go. On the other hand, it was shown countless examples of the more difficult case of turning before or after other cars. So it learned to key off the existence of other cars, pedestrians and so on. All they need to do is train it to go when nobody is around.
 
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But Tesla has chosen the "free" sensor approach.
It was believed to be an interim patch because Robotaxis were only a year away. Why devote a lot of time and energy to something you're going to obsolete? I just hope it's clear to everyone at Tesla that our cars are going to stay at L2 (perhaps with excursions into L3), and that they need a proper driver attention monitoring system. In truth, all cars should have such a system at all times.
 
I'm still on 2024.3.25, along with about 28% of Teslafi users.

I hate to say it, but it seems Tesla is holding this group back for a 12.4 release based on a firmware version lower than 2024.14 (perhaps a variant of 2024.9)

Screenshot 2024-05-31 at 6.20.14 AM.png
 
I'm still on 2024.3.25, along with about 28% of Teslafi users.

I hate to say it, but it seems Tesla is holding this group back for a 12.4 release based on a firmware version lower than 2024.14 (perhaps a variant of 2024.9)
You hate to say it???? This is the way it has always been so nothing new about it since that is the way Tesla does it. Also 12.4 is (not perhaps will be) 24.9.5.

Screenshot 2024-05-31 at 8.30.52 AM.png
 
This person claims 2024.9.5 / 12.4 is pretty unusable with regressions for even staying in lane:

Perhaps the release was a "quick fix" to meet the goal of having something with the fresh retrained 12.4.x models deployed by the end of week. Autopilot team probably knew it wasn't ready for wider deployment even internally, and perhaps that's why it hasn't been detected on TeslaInfo which had early releases of other 12.x.
 
This person claims 2024.9.5 / 12.4 is pretty unusable with regressions for even staying in lane:

Perhaps the release was a "quick fix" to meet the goal of having something with the fresh retrained 12.4.x models deployed by the end of week. Autopilot team probably knew it wasn't ready for wider deployment even internally, and perhaps that's why it hasn't been detected on TeslaInfo which had early releases of other 12.x.
They did post screen shots of their app that they have 12.4. Could be doctored, but we haven't seen any updates outside it going to employees. Even the employees that are on tracking services haven't received it, which typically get it before Omar.

Edit: Not sure why they would waste time with a version that was unstable as a "quick fix" just to align with Elon's tweet. Also not sure if this is real.
 
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They did post screen shots of their app that they have 12.4. Could be doctored, but we haven't seen any updates outside it going to employees. Even the employees that are on tracking services haven't received it, which typically get it before Omar.

Edit: Not sure why they would waste time with a version that was unstable as a "quick fix" just to align with Elon's tweet. Also not sure if this is real.
Interesting that it has the same sub version build numbering as the 12.4 video posted by Lunashi a week ago. Seems like both must be real or they are coping each other.

Screenshot 2024-05-31 at 10.55.09 AM.png
Screenshot 2024-05-31 at 10.54.50 AM.png
 
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This person claims 2024.9.5 / 12.4 is pretty unusable with regressions for even staying in lane:

Perhaps the release was a "quick fix" to meet the goal of having something with the fresh retrained 12.4.x models deployed by the end of week. Autopilot team probably knew it wasn't ready for wider deployment even internally, and perhaps that's why it hasn't been detected on TeslaInfo which had early releases of other 12.x.
It's a reddit post. Not credible.
 
It's kind of like the stop sign logic previously. If there were no cars in the intersection, it would roll the stop (like most human drivers do). Of course the law doesn't allow for that.

For the record, I stop at stop signs and also signal even if there are no apparent cars around. Better safe than sorry given there are no exceptions in the law (a cop hiding in a bush or corner can easily write a ticket if they wanted to).
Having a routine is important, so when the routine is interrupted for some reason I know "something's wrong." Signaling before making a lane change is just an automatic procedure. Why bother expending the cognition on deciding whether or not to use the directional? It's never wrong, it's not a big deal (especially now that I'm acclimating to use the "feel from the top or bottom of the yoke arm" technique, which works pretty well), so it's easiest to just always do it. Having said that, I do make an exception for when I'm on a deserted road with full visibility in all relevant directions, but that's the only special case I can think of and only while changing lanes. At intersections I always use a signal no matter what.
 
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Heh. Back in the really long ago, when I was a fresh-faced naval trainee in Tennessee, a bunch of us were given a lecture by a senior petty officer about dos and don’ts in the area. Some of it was pretty straightforward, like where the USO was in Memphis; other bits were warnings about what sections of Memphis were off-limits, and so on.

But the guy had a warning for us about some odd driving habits by the locals, as follows:

Say one is waiting to turn left onto a busy two-lane street. Here comes a line of cars, all with their right-turn blinkers on and, due to the narrowness of the road and opposing traffic, they’re all slowing down. The first guy in line turns right onto your street.

One might think that it’d be safe to pull out and turn left, since all those other cars are signaling a similar turn. One would be wrong. The first guy turns-and the rest cancel the turn signal and accelerate on by.

Apparently as a courtesy to the cars in the line, when the fellow in front is signaling, the rest would signal, too, to let following cars know what’s going on, so that speeding cars coming up from the rear would at least see a flashing light, useful in the fog, I guess. But there had been some pretty spectacular accidents when an out-of-towner, relatively new driver misapprehended what all those other cars were doing and stuck his car’s nose out for a turn. Hence, the warning.

Wonder if FSDS has to figure that?
Wow, I never considered such a reason for using a turn signal, but it may go at least a little toward explaining a driving habit I've been perplexed about here in MA. As I approach an intersection at 6 o'clock with the intention to turn right, and there's a guy at 3 o'clock with his left blinker on, even after I turn on my right blinker, he'll typically wait until I'm well into the corner, maybe even at 45 degrees, before proceeding to make that left turn. I specifically even turn on my blinker earlier than I might've otherwise, to let him know I'm turning right and it's OK for him to make his left across my path...but still he'll wait.

When I'm in his position, as soon as I see the other guy (me in the scenario above) with his blinker on, I'll just check briefly to make sure he isn't oblivious to the fact it's on, and as soon as I detect a slowdown into a right turn I'll go ahead and make my left. I just don't see the point of waiting as long as I see many other people do.
 
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Wow, I never considered such a reason for using a turn signal, but it may go at least a little toward explaining a driving habit I've been perplexed about here in MA. As I approach an intersection at 6 o'clock with the intention to turn right, and there's a guy at 3 o'clock with his left blinker on, even after I turn on my right blinker, he'll typically wait until I'm well into the corner, maybe even at 45 degrees, before proceeding to make that left turn. I specifically even turn on my blinker earlier than I might've otherwise, to let him know I'm turning right and it's OK for him to make his left across my path...but still he'll wait.

When I'm in his position, as soon as I see the other guy (me in the scenario above) with his blinker on, I'll just check briefly to make sure he isn't oblivious to the fact it's on, and as soon as I detect a slowdown into a right turn I'll go ahead and make my left. I just don't see the point of waiting as long as I see many other people do.
I'm suspicious of turn signals and always wait until the supposed action is well under way.
 
Totally. I have seen case where people forget them on. One has to always pay attention and not take it for granted.
Just a month ago, I was in the left turn lane and the left traffic signal just turned green for me. There was a truck coming towards me. Something was off, just enough to cause me not to make the turn. Sure enough, he barreled through his own red light at full steam. Another free lesson learned!!!
 
This person claims 2024.9.5 / 12.4 is pretty unusable with regressions for even staying in lane:

Perhaps the release was a "quick fix" to meet the goal of having something with the fresh retrained 12.4.x models deployed by the end of week. Autopilot team probably knew it wasn't ready for wider deployment even internally, and perhaps that's why it hasn't been detected on TeslaInfo which had early releases of other 12.x.
But I thought Elon said 12.4 would be a 10x improvement over 12.3?

Maybe the guy needs to recalibrate his cameras.