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General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

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Still stuck in the olden days: ‘once the car reaches 2000 break-in miles, it’ll go through our battery of more than 50 tests...’. :rolleyes:
They have to burn some rubber first to get the 5.1sec 0-60 that Tesla is selling, otherwise they would get a lower time in the 4's like others tested and that wouldn't look good in their review :eek:
 
Wag.. the same way we all do.

InsideEV numbers for Jan was 1875.

I took this from the Model 3 invites google doc being maintained in the TMC invites ..
The doc below uses like a factor/multiplier of 20 to come up with Est Deliveries.
If we do the same with the insideEV numbers, the multiplier becomes like 13.


Screen Shot 2018-02-28 at 7.05.03 PM.png
 
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InsideEV numbers for Jan was 1875.
I took this from the Model 3 invites google doc being maintained in the TMC invites ..
The doc below uses like a factor/multiplier of 20 to come up with Est Deliveries.
If we do the same with the insideEV numbers, the multiplier becomes like 13.
View attachment 283639
Hmm, I can't believe there could be 8460 deliveries when I haven't seen any VIN higher than 83xx.
 
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Hmm, I can't believe there could be 8460 deliveries when I haven't seen any VIN higher than 83xx.

Not all VINs get reported
The ones that do some times just have the first 2 digits

So what is sample population of deliveries being reported to TMC etc. I think that is key. Main thing is can't depend on these estimations for real, just see how different the outcomes are ....
 
Even if those numbers are well below the bullish expectations, if you look at the competition that is supposed to kill Tesla according to the bears, you see the Bolt is already at half the volume and dropping, while the new Leaf is only a third. And we know there are some self-banning bets placed on the Leaf beating the Model 3 this year ;)
 
Last December IEEE Spectrum highlighted new findings published by researchers at Stanford. They show it should be possible to create 'lithium rich' electrodes which would increase Li battery energy capacity by 50%. The author illustrated the increase using the Tesla P100D pack. It's interesting that this scale of capacity increase seems about what people think would be needed by Semi in order for it's specs to be met while weight and cost are consistent with announced purchase prices.

I'll note that Jeffrey Dahn and his battery research team pretty much specialize in understanding "the way atoms rearrange themselves in the electrode when it’s being charged and how electrons are stored in the battery’s atomic and chemical structures." and modifying those structures to improve performance. They are able to test and evaluate how new formulations will retain charging capacity over tens of thousands of cycles in weeks rather than years, using custom testing equipment they've developed and used the past several years.

While there is no way to know if this is the avenue Tesla may have taken to greatly reduce battery costs for Semi and other new products,
I think this shows that it is possible for there to be very major performance increases going forward, not only the incremental 7 - 8 percent annual increases everyone expects based on progress rate over the last ten years.

New Analysis of Lithium-Ion Batteries Shows How to Pack in More Energy

"If electric vehicles are ever going to outcompete gas-powered ones, batteries must improve. Conventional lithium-ion batteries, the most energy-dense for their weight, can only be charged to about 50 percent of their theoretical capacity. When researchers have tried to pack more lithium into a battery’s electrodes, it hasn’t helped. The electrodes begin to quickly degrade after the first discharge/recharge cycle, and nobody has been able to figure out how to prevent it.

Now there’s a clue. Using a combination of theoretical computer modeling and sophisticated X-ray methods, researchers have for the first time found a relationship between the way atoms rearrange themselves in the electrode when it’s being charged and how electrons are stored in the battery’s atomic and chemical structures. This insight should give battery-makers a blueprint for building lithium-rich electrodes that could dramatically improve battery performance.

At its full potential, a lithium-rich battery could improve the range of today’s electric vehicles by a third or better. A Tesla Model S with the company’s P100D battery pack, for instance, could go from traveling 315 miles (about 500 kilometers) on a single charge to as far as 473 miles. Or the carmaker could keep the range at 315 miles, but lower the price to compete with gas-powered vehicles without a rebate."
 
2485 in inside EVs

February 2018 Plug-In Electric Vehicle Sales Report Card

LoL, so ok I was last. Fine. Good job @mutle and @ZsoZso

One thing about the insideevs report that no one's stated yet:
"We should also point out that an anonymous source with close ties to Model 3 production made us aware that the line has been down for as much as a week at a time over the course of the last month or so due to timing issues with the robots."

That seems to explain the lack of production that schonelucht noticed. Hopefully those timing issues got resolved with the recent batch of configuration invitations?
 
Bosch 20 Billion Euro plan to build battery plants between now and 2030? Not doing it. Solid state battery company they acquired? For sale.
Bosch decides against massive battery cell production plan for electric cars, even sells solid-state battery start-up
Shortfall of the global supply of long range EVs vs. global demand? With us for years to come, and one of Tesla’s primary moats.

It's not like there isn't big money to be made by supplying the cells needed by the major ICE manufacturers, if and when they ramp to millions of EVs. There must be one or more major reasons Bosch looked at this closely then decided to punt.
Two that come to mind are 1. They looked at what Panasonic and Tesla have done the past four years to get the world's first battery gigafactory built and decided they did not want this particular expensive challenge. 2. Their analysis of the Euro ICE makers led them to the same conclusion as many on TMC. That these companies aren't going to push to sell millions of EVs in the coming 5 - 10 years.
If Bosch believes they are not, that would be a great reason for not risking huge amount of capital to service a demand that is not going to materialize.
 
Even if those numbers are well below the bullish expectations, if you look at the competition that is supposed to kill Tesla according to the bears, you see the Bolt is already at half the volume and dropping, while the new Leaf is only a third. And we know there are some self-banning bets placed on the Leaf beating the Model 3 this year ;)

The word does not end at the U.S.A. boundaries.

Nissan LEAF Sets Sales Record In Norway In Its First Month
 
It's not like there isn't big money to be made by supplying the cells needed by the major ICE manufacturers, if and when they ramp to millions of EVs. There must be one or more major reasons Bosch looked at this closely then decided to punt.
Two that come to mind are 1. They looked at what Panasonic and Tesla have done the past four years to get the world's first battery gigafactory built and decided they did not want this particular expensive challenge. 2. Their analysis of the Euro ICE makers led them to the same conclusion as many on TMC. That these companies aren't going to push to sell millions of EVs in the coming 5 - 10 years.
If Bosch believes they are not, that would be a great reason for not risking huge amount of capital to service a demand that is not going to materialize.
Also possible that what you mentioned in post 3432 above made Bosch realize how far behind they potentially are, and re-evaluate their ROI on investing in new solid state battery.
 
One thing about the insideevs report that no one's stated yet:
"We should also point out that an anonymous source with close ties to Model 3 production made us aware that the line has been down for as much as a week at a time over the course of the last month or so due to timing issues with the robots."

That seems to explain the lack of production that schonelucht noticed. Hopefully those timing issues got resolved with the recent batch of configuration invitations?

That's a very good point. I assume that the timing issues (inefficiencies?) have been there all along and that Tesla is taking this time to improve things for future production. Since the robots were programmed some time ago, I doubt that the timing problems are a new issue.

These shutdowns will hurt March delivery numbers, but things should improve greatly after that.
 
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