Going from 2022.20.8 to 2022.24.5 – radar removal or not?

[Durzel]

If auto headlights and wipers worked to the same level as pretty much every other car on the road, even ones considerably cheaper than Teslas, then I wouldn't really have much of a problem with it.

As it is though, I've tried using auto headlights a few times and each and every time it has been a mixture of lethargic and embarrasing. it switches off at reflections of signs, doesn't switch off at all in areas of high ambient lighting (e.g. street lights), and is FAR too slow at switching off at oncoming cars. It should not take seconds to respond, when other cars manage it almost instantaneously. In my experience it is unreliable or simply hopeless at identifying distant rear lights as well, so as to turn headlights off when approaching vehicles from behind. I don't know why these systems are so broken.

I don't have a problem with losing radar per say, so long as the alternative is as competent or better. At the moment that just isn't the case, because it mandates ancilliary systems (auto wipers, auto headlights) that are themselves either broken or ineffective, depending on conditions.

 

[S&B's M3]

From doing some reading..

2022.20.9 moves radar cars to Tesla Vision and is mentioned in the release notes for that version.

2022.24.6 also moves radar cars to Tesla Vision, but it’s not included in the release notes you’ll see in the car when you install it. It’s hidden in earlier release notes (for 2022.20). I don’t like these “hidden” retroactive changes.

Ok, I can dig it, but what about those of us who are currently on 20.8? At this time, 20.9 has never come up as a download for my (early 2019 SR+) M3? Currently, my app is asking me if I want to download and install 24.5. Also, if 24.6 fixes bugs, why are they wanting to download 24.5 and not 24.6?

Then there's the issue of a camera versus radar, IMO it's like a drone taking a picture of a forest versus the same drone using LADAR, big big difference.

 

[KirillK]

I don't have a problem with losing radar per say, so long as the alternative is as competent or better. At the moment that just isn't the case, because it mandates ancilliary systems (auto wipers, auto headlights) that are themselves either broken or ineffective, depending on conditions.

That's spot on. I usually disable auto-high beams every time I engage autopilot because it turns off high beams on well lit interstates and when driving on coutry roads - disabled high beams too late, other driver already hate you at that time for blinding them. But at least you need to disable auto high beams once during the ride, not every time you engage autopilot.

 

[Mikecm1]

Ah, not wanting to lose functionality is a valid point. Much different than the "I want to use my radar because I have one" or "radar is better because I know it" that I hear often here. Sorry if I put you in the wrong group .

Yes, temporarily it would seem like we will lose a bit in the follow distance and possibly the max speed. Auto headlights and auto wipers shouldn't be a problem in themselves, IF they would work well. Unfortunately these subsystems also seem to have flaws, which I'll discover once I'm forced to use them... The alternative would be to forever stay on code that isn't maintained anymore and has its flaws, like phantom breaking for example. Not that it's eliminated in vision mind you, but we'd be forever stuck on old, flawed and unsupported code.
So the only thing we could argue for is to wait longer before switching I guess... until we are satisfied that none of the things that matter to us are removed or made worse. Knowing Tesla, we won't get to decide.

I don’t think anyone wants to use radar just for the sake of having one. It all comes down to functionality and effectiveness.

 

[GtiMart]

Agreed, the important thing is that features work. IT's just that many people self proclaim experts at AI/ML and computer vision and believe they know better than Tesla's experts. Others do seem hell bent on using a device because their car has it, if I am to believe the many threads around here. Heck, I've seen people wanting to add a radar to their car that didn't have one.

 

[S&B's M3]

Ok, I can dig it, but what about those of us who are currently on 20.8? At this time, 20.9 has never come up as a download for my (early 2019 SR+) M3? Currently, my app is asking me if I want to download and install 24.5. Also, if 24.6 fixes bugs, why are they wanting to download 24.5 and not 24.6?

Then there's the issue of a camera versus radar, IMO it's like a drone taking a picture of a forest versus the same drone using LADAR, big big difference.

Sorry folks, that should have read LIDAR not LADAR... doh!!

 

[Occhis]

On 8/20/22 I installed 2022.20.8 and on 8/29/22 my rear camera ceased to function. The night of 8/29/22 installed 2022.20.9. Now I have no visualization of other cars on the screen and TACC/Autosteer do not work. At the SC appointment today was told that I need a new computer. Coincidence??
See 20.9 release notes below.

 

[Durzel]

Ok, I can dig it, but what about those of us who are currently on 20.8? At this time, 20.9 has never come up as a download for my (early 2019 SR+) M3? Currently, my app is asking me if I want to download and install 24.5. Also, if 24.6 fixes bugs, why are they wanting to download 24.5 and not 24.6?

Then there's the issue of a camera versus radar, IMO it's like a drone taking a picture of a forest versus the same drone using LADAR, big big difference.

As far as I know 24.6 is basically the same as 24.5 but with Tesla Vision migration added.

I think 24.5 is safe to install (assuming you want to keep radar), 24.6 isn’t.

That being said obviously this is just delaying the inevitable. Your issues with 24.6 will probably come down to how much AP driving you do, particularly at night. If you can accept the current quirks of Tesla Vision relative to radar+cameras then I guess there’s no reason not to upgrade. You might find you don’t even experience any issues.

Short version: You should have no problems or change in AP functionality upgrading to 24.5

 

[S&B's M3]

As far as I know 24.6 is basically the same as 24.5 but with Tesla Vision migration added.

I think 24.5 is safe to install (assuming you want to keep radar), 24.6 isn’t.

That being said obviously this is just delaying the inevitable. Your issues with 24.6 will probably come down to how much AP driving you do, particularly at night. If you can accept the current quirks of Tesla Vision relative to radar+cameras then I guess there’s no reason not to upgrade. You might find you don’t even experience any issues.

Short version: You should have no problems or change in AP functionality upgrading to 24.5

You are correct . here's the notes from 24.5, which I just downloaded and installed. No ostensible issues with any of the cameras either.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

As far as I know 24.6 is basically the same as 24.5 but with Tesla Vision migration added.

I think 24.5 is safe to install (assuming you want to keep radar), 24.6 isn’t.

That being said obviously this is just delaying the inevitable. Your issues with 24.6 will probably come down to how much AP driving you do, particularly at night. If you can accept the current quirks of Tesla Vision relative to radar+cameras then I guess there’s no reason not to upgrade. You might find you don’t even experience any issues.

Short version: You should have no problems or change in AP functionality upgrading to 24.5

Downloaded 20.9 and that took my radar away - shown in release notes. Earlier this week it went direct to 24.6 radar already gone.

ETA: The Traffic along Route is great. It has been hard to always see the colored traffic lines next to the big blue line but now you can see from across the car easily where trouble is a coming. Worth the update...

 

[XPsionic]

Downloaded 20.9 and that took my radar away - shown in release notes. Earlier this week it went direct to 24.6 radar already gone.

Noticed any difference in AP?

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Noticed any difference in AP?

Middle of 5hr trip today. No real difference - been perfectly smooth. Very happy so far.

For giggles, I started with a camera calibration. Car has 47k miles and lots of bumps on camera do thought it could not hurt when changing to vision only.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Back now.

No PB or issues. It did disengage when I was pinned and accelerated above 85mph to get over. That was my bad for not disengaging. Just pulled over at gas station and it restarted.

So about 1,500 miles total on vision only.

So far I am good with vision only.

 

[Platini]

2022.24.5 and my radar is still working. I don't have autopilot, not even basic autopilot ,(model 3 2018) hardware 2.5. The way I can tell that the radar is still working is because the radar can "see" the car in front of the car in front of me. See attached photo. I think this is an important feature and I hope Tesla will not disconnect it for collision avoidance.

 

[Mikecm1]

Crazy that Tesla would do this before it’s as good as vision + radar. Has to be pure laziness in maintaining two software stacks. But I don’t understand why they couldn’t simply leave the current AP logic for cars with radar until vision only was on par.

Even IF phantom braking is now absent like I’ve enjoyed for 2 years, I do not want to disable auto high beams and wipers every time I enable AP, and not looking forward to constantly being cut off on California highways with a 2 minimum follow distance. And sometimes traffic calls for 90 max AP, even if it’s not legal. Sometimes I go on road trips with 70mph+ speed limits where everyone is driving 90+. My car that I paid for shouldn’t change and dictate how I’m allowed to use it. Especially since it functioned one way when I handed them my money.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Crazy that Tesla would do this before it’s as good as vision + radar. Has to be pure laziness in maintaining two software stacks. But I don’t understand why they couldn’t simply leave the current AP logic for cars with radar until vision only was on par.

Even IF phantom braking is now absent like I’ve enjoyed for 2 years, I do not want to disable auto high beams and wipers every time I enable AP, and not looking forward to constantly being cut off on California highways with a 2 minimum follow distance. And sometimes traffic calls for 90 max AP, even if it’s not legal. Sometimes I go on road trips with 70mph+ speed limits where everyone is driving 90+. My car that I paid for shouldn’t change and dictate how I’m allowed to use it. Especially since it functioned one way when I handed them my money.

Auto highs and wipers is NOT a requirement of this switch to vision only. I have driven in dark and rain and do not have it switched on.

 

[Mikecm1]

Do you not have to disable them each time though? From what I’ve read, they’re turned on when you enable AP and you have to manually disable them each time.

 

[positiv]

Auto highs and wipers is NOT a requirement of this switch to vision only. I have driven in dark and rain and do not have it switched on.

Then why does Tesla switch auto high beam on every single time autopilot is activated?

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Then why does Tesla switch auto high beam on every single time autopilot is activated?

When I drove on open highway in dark they did not activate. The setting was set to off.

I will try it again and see if I was daydreaming...

 

[positiv]

When I drove on open highway in dark they did not activate. The setting was set to off.

I will try it again and see if I was daydreaming...

On mine when autopilot is activated it displays a faint little grey high beam icon with an A in the middle. It’s hard to see but it means that auto high beam is forced on (But not currently engaged).