EVRider-FL
Active Member
You shouldn’t be able to set following distance to 1 if you don’t have radar. The other restriction is that the maximum set speed for Autosteer (but not TACC) is 85 instead of 90. Try rebooting and see if anything changes.
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Going from 2022.20.8 to 2022.24.5 – radar removal or not?
- Thread starter Mikecm1
- Start date
pl8dlikafiddle
Member
2020 Model 3 AWD with 2022.24.8. Anecdotal experience below...
Just returned from a 900 mile trip - 1 phantom braking event. We've made this trip numerous times, and the car would predictably phantom brake at this location on the interstate everytime - it's a mixture of a crest with a highway sign immediately after. I believe the car thinks there's a wall in front as it approach the high point on the road and sees the interstate overhead signage immediately after the crest.
When radar was active, the car would slam on the brakes at this location, always - slows down all the way to 40-45mph before realizing there's nothing there. With 2022.24.8, the car lightly applied its brakes and slowed to around 65-70mph before proceeding back up to 80 mph. It still slowed down, but a more pleasant "phantom braking" event than previously with radar.
Just returned from a 900 mile trip - 1 phantom braking event. We've made this trip numerous times, and the car would predictably phantom brake at this location on the interstate everytime - it's a mixture of a crest with a highway sign immediately after. I believe the car thinks there's a wall in front as it approach the high point on the road and sees the interstate overhead signage immediately after the crest.
When radar was active, the car would slam on the brakes at this location, always - slows down all the way to 40-45mph before realizing there's nothing there. With 2022.24.8, the car lightly applied its brakes and slowed to around 65-70mph before proceeding back up to 80 mph. It still slowed down, but a more pleasant "phantom braking" event than previously with radar.
johnking
Member
For a long time, I was refusing the updates and was stuck at 20.9. Last week had to take the car to SC for a windshield replacement and they ended up updating it to 44.2. I looked at all the release notes. I do not see a 'You are on Tesla vision' message. There is one release which says that the autopilot speed has now increased from 80 to 85 MPH. I think this is something relevant to 'Vision only' vehicles but I could be wrong.. While returning back from the SC, it was raining heavily so couldn't do a good test for autopilot. Guess I will have to just stomach it and move on. Planning to sell my Model X in a few weeks but still undecided.
Increased from 80 to 85? That doesn’t make sense.. 80mph was only for vision only when it originally released. They increased it to 85 way back in May. And 20.9 was the update disabling radar, you would have needed to stay on 20.8. If you have always been at 80 max then you’ve been on vision only the whole time… and if you were on 20.9 for the past few months then you’ve been vision only without realizing.
johnking
Member
With the update that the SC carried out, many cumulative ones have been applied. Just noticed today that I cannot reduce the car length to 1 while using autopilot. I was able to do that until I went to the SC. Now the minimum is 2. It's possible that radar was disabled in 20.9 but since I was able to reduce it to 1, I thought I was still on legacy AP.
Went to a nearby SC and asked if they can roll it back. They said they can't. Told them that I did not authorize any upgrade and only me as the consumer should update the car. They were just apologetic but told me that they can't help me in any way unfortunately.
smogne41
Active Member
Any update that is applied is fully cumulative. Skipping one or a few updates are not going to let you skip some change that Tesla wants to do. You have to opt out indefinitely.
johnking
Member
You are right. It is always cumulative and that is why I held out. They carried out the update without my permission. I could fight it out with the service center but it will get ugly. I got a new Rivian R1S at home & I am loving it so I am anyway inclined to sell my Model X. Not worth the trouble. Gonna let it go for now.
And how (bad?) was autopilot after the update, in no rain conditions?
And with rain?
I have a Raven X and i'm still on 2022.20.8 because i don't want to lose radar, 1 following distance and parking sensors...
Why would you lose your parking sensors ? Everyone one who has USS has parking sensors enabled.
I was under the impression that USS were also removed via software "update"
johnking
Member
@T.R.T.e.s.l.a. - I hope you hold-out as long as you can. If ever you go to the service center, tell them specifically that you do not want a software upgrade. The autopilot is OK but it gives off when the visibility is not so good. It is foggy most days here in Seattle this time of the year. When it was sunny, I did not see much of a difference. Couldn't test it out at night yet. Will keep this thread posted once I do a night testing on the freeway and inner roads. #HoldOut.
I believe this will be in vain. Service centers are likely obligated to install all updates, as are we as owners (part of the ownership agreement). Some of the updates contain safety "recalls".
My Model 3 still has its radar (2022.20.8), but I don't use autopilot or TACC... still would like to keep my radar for AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking).
Any opinions on whether or not I'm overthinking this? It would be nice to have some of the other updates that have come down the pipeline in the past few months (new energy graph, blind spot camera placement, etc).
The purpose of removing radar and USS was not because of the improvements in "Tesla Vision" (BS) and "Neural net" (Complete BS), it was purely cost reduction in parts (~$100) and additional install labor. this is not moving forward unless yo are a bean counter at tesla
While I agree that these sensors weren't removed because "Tesla vision makes them redundant", cost reduction may not have been the primary motive. Complexity reduction / supply chain dependency reduction may be the bigger motives. Of course, dollars will always be a motive to some degree... maybe just not the primary.
I think the removal of radar and USS was a really poor choice.
And yet here we are 12-18 months later and the car is driving pretty well without radar.
The point really is that the old radar was not giving much bang for the buck. It wasn't good enough to over-ride the cameras, so the vision system needed to be good enough that it didn't need radar .. so where was the value add? Fast-forward to today, and technology improves (and gets cheaper) and the equation changes, the newer radars CAN add value, as the cost is lower and accuracy way better. And so they are adding radar back.
One thing to remember is Tesla's decision to equip all cars with all the hardware for FSD, in order to make it an "instant OTA upgrade". This is good for Tesla (instant gratification and stuff like subscription models) but does mean that there sensor suite cost is critical since every car must have the hardware.
