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Perhaps true in some ways. The biggest discrepancy is us who ordered based on October, 2016 information. But still, if one reads Tesla's Autopilot page and makes a AP2.5 purchase decision based on that, it is probably already a bit rough road...

Anyone who ordered before Jan 2017 I would lump in with the October folks, myself included.

However anyone ordering the car today, based on all we know should lay off the drugs because this ride is far from over. The fact Elon is already building the framework to hide behind regulators even though FSD is wide open in some states is very telling. And, not a single mention of the coast to coast drive, which means not happening this year (which we all new), I’m very doubtful the first quarter either.

I can’t wait to see what @lunatics uncovers for hw3
 
“But for customers that have purchased the full autonomy option, if it does turn out that it requires computer upgrade for full autonomy, we will replace their computer — it’s just a matter of unplug the old computer, plug the new one in

Tesla could upgrade customer computers to meet self-driving requirements

Anyone that's ever worked with upgrading motherboards is getting a huge chuckle out of this one. Yeah, you just plug the connectors into the new board. It's really simple. ;-)
 
Mentioned is only a small IF. "If it does turn out" something other than the computer needs an update (or another breakup with suppliers or software developers), the goal becomes a moving target! Besides, hardware could be drop in and provide immediate satisfaction, but Tesla software development and validation takes 1 year delay maybe definitely, just to drive like human.

Being as good as a human driver or 2x safer is not enough, but 1000x. So they will need to update both hardware and software in order to get regulation certified. Like PC peripherals, Intel labs can conduct the test and issue certification. :)
 
This, I think, will be an eternal disagreement to which a lot of different view come down to. I know some on TMC see Tesla as an outright fraud, while others see Tesla did nothing wrong but was, say, caught up in the events (e.g. the MobilEye breakup). One's views will be dramatically different depending on where one is on this scale deep down, because so much of the rest of the opinion flows from that.

As you know I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't think Tesla is a fraud, but I do think some of the things they have done are where a reasonable person "knew better or should have known better". The P85HD HP, the P90DL performance limiters (both court cases in different jurisdictions), AP2 EAP "December, 2016" and FSD "3-6 months" announcements are on this list. At the very least, they should have known better than to do it like this. Some might add the promised Model S lighted sun-visors on the list, few remember that Tesla actually promised to retrofit those to all Model S's - arguably to keep anyone from waiting to buy a car because of that back in the day.



I think it would be naive to assume that doesn't factor into Tesla's/Elon's communications. Quarterly financial results are obviously very important for Tesla and a lot of their communications and demand levers at least seem to be geared towards keeping the cars moving right now.



Now, this, this I can believe to an extent. I believe Elon believes he can deliver FSD to AP2 - and intends to eventually - or at least believed it when he made the announcement. But even then he is not immune to being caught in the web of past promises. It isn't like Tesla could easily walk back on the FSD promise for AP2 now, so it circles back to "what they reasonably knew or should have known" before communicating IMO... Several AP1 promises were moved to AP2 hardware (traffic lights, elements of smart summon etc.), P85D HP promises moved onto P85DL, P90DL and when P90DL V1 and maybe V2 had issues reaching its specs, the promises were finally fulfilled on P90DL V3, P100D etc. - which of course does not help a guy with AP1 or P85D or P90DL V1... and then when P90DL etc. had warranty issues, Tesla scaled even that P90DL V3 performance back retroactively... (Later that change was mostly rolled back due to pressure from a judge.)

And, unfortunately after three years of Tesla ownership, that picture is not always as pretty as I would like. I would like nothing more than for Tesla to fix that part about them for the future. My suggestion that they only sell and announce what is ready today remains - they could ship the hardware just as fast in my idea, just not pre-announce its capabilities (let alone charge a price) before it is confirmed and software ships... and avoid hubris in announced specs at all costs.
Fair enough, but just want to point out even though I don’t think Elon is oblivious to the numbers each quarter, he’s had enough close calls with respect to Tesla remaining solvent to know how important that is, my point is it’s not what motivates him at all. He likely sees it as an annoyance. Many of the gripes regarding business ethics are misplaced because it assumes the decision to deceive or not deceive without factoring in complexity of a large groups and human factors of self delusion in making promises). The simplest explanation, that ambitious dreamers who build rockets and boring machines and send solar panels and power walls to Puerto Rico sometimes say things pretty grandiose. That behavior is far from poor business ethics. Negligence in making promises on timelines is a fair argument, but I don’t buy the fraud argument. I do understand that it feels like a fraud to people who are annoyed with feeling mislead by videos and tweets, perhaps I will feel this way IF the ethics of the business suddenly change and they stop busting their ass to solve the problems. Until then, until Tesla starts giving me second hand sloppy hardware when I bought FSD on my sweet blue steed, I feel pretty darn good about where this is going.
 
Anyone that's ever worked with upgrading motherboards is getting a huge chuckle out of this one. Yeah, you just plug the connectors into the new board. It's really simple. ;-)

Actually in automotive service terms it probably is quite simple. I assume this would be implemented in a manner that can be swapped as simply as any automotive electronics.

They'd obviously design a part that simply replaces the entire (or most of the) computer assembly inside AP2 cars - or at least design a plug-ang-play adapter/harness to fit a new computer... So screw the screws, snap out the fakras and vice-versa and it is done.

I doubt they'd start swapping mother-boards (except perhaps in some part recycling manner separate of what happens at the service center)...
 
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Ah, but what of the statement that the S/X would remain ahead of the 3? Even level-pegging for parity, let’s fast forward to the day Tesla’s AP_on_a_Chip (editorial license taken) is ready.

I am of the camp that doesn’t believe Tesla will retrofit the relatively small number of prepaid FSD owners until Tesla’s own AP processor is ready. So let’s say that debuts a year from now.

Clearly that processor will go into the 3. Clearly it will go into new S/Xs.

Seems reasonable that they would retrofit the prepaid folks with the same hardware if for no other reason than economy (of $ for both material and effort).

I suppose there could be limitations due to the aging hardware versions otherwise in, say, a November 2016 Tesla (with then 2-year old grumpy owners), but other than that...
The way I interpreted the S/X statement is that it only applies to cars delivered (at most ordered) at the same time. I do not expect cars delivered back in last year to necessarily be ahead of Model 3. And Tesla's retrofit promise had nothing to do with that (Tesla never promised to retrofit improvements in the 3 into the S/X).
 
Like the post, but I do think Elon understands the complexity of the task, his interview when he describes his meeting with Hotz tell me that and more. I think Hotz walked away because he didn’t like the veto power Elon wanted and thought he could do it without him.... so I think Hotz is the one who likely minimized how hard it would be. I think MobileEye simply made a wise financial decision for themselves and Elon probably always knew he wanted tesla to source all of it and viewed mobileye as a potentially temporary partner.

To me, Elon seems to be much smarter than people realize. I think he gets demoralized a lot more than people know because he cares about what he does, I think this is his greatest strength, Moreso than being smart. There are plenty of folks that are as but then again, I freaking love my car and I think only a mega genius could have created this car.... it’s 10 years ahead of everything else currently on the road.

He did and does not know. He said like two years ago that self driving was basically a solved problem and this is nowhere near true. He has overblown perceptions of what machine learning can do right now.

Before people bash me, I am a huge fan of Tesla and SpaceX and what Elon has done. He is amazing and unparalleled visionary and leader. But he is not infallible and he overextended on this topic and people are understandably upset. It will pass, but it's a small blip on his reputation for sure.
 
He did and does not know. He said like two years ago that self driving was basically a solved problem and this is nowhere near true. He has overblown perceptions of what machine learning can do right now.

Before people bash me, I am a huge fan of Tesla and SpaceX and what Elon has done. He is amazing and unparalleled visionary and leader. But he is not infallible and he overextended on this topic and people are understandably upset. It will pass, but it's a small blip on his reputation for sure.

May surprise you to hear that I agree with everything you just said after you said “before people bash me” , I think the first part of your post is a likely true to some degree but understanding how to solve the self driving problem and doing it are different things entirely. The problem is likely solved theoretically (I.e. they know what they need to do) but doing it is what he minimized and I believe Elon does himself a disservice by minimizing the enormity of the task. I do however believe he understands it. I stop short of saying he overextends on purpose ... I don’t think it is by design.... I think his enthusiasm is authentic and makes you believe. I believe he can do it not because he’s smarter than every one else. I’m most impressed with his team building and his personality. A less likable person would not have achieved as much. It’s downright fascinating. Richard Branson is also a really smart and impressive guy but seems douchey to the masses no? Like he’s trying to be cool too often. Seems like Elon is a bit more of Tom Hanks character, maybe not Forest Gump but he certainly has the same sort of universality that is compelling in this dreaming game. He has an opportunity to the be the one if the most important historical figures in modern history. How remarkable. Sure hope he keeps it going.
 
May surprise you to hear that I agree with everything you just said after you said “before people bash me” , I think the first part of your post is a likely true to some degree but understanding how to solve the self driving problem and doing it are different things entirely. The problem is likely solved theoretically (I.e. they know what they need to do) but doing it is what he minimized and I believe Elon does himself a disservice by minimizing the enormity of the task. I do however believe he understands it. I stop short of saying he overextends on purpose ... I don’t think it is by design.... I think his enthusiasm is authentic and makes you believe. I believe he can do it not because he’s smarter than every one else. I’m most impressed with his team building and his personality. A less likable person would not have achieved as much. It’s downright fascinating. Richard Branson is also a really smart and impressive guy but seems douchey to the masses no? Like he’s trying to be cool too often. Seems like Elon is a bit more of Tom Hanks character, maybe not Forest Gump but he certainly has the same sort of universality that is compelling in this dreaming game. He has an opportunity to the be the one if the most important historical figures in modern history. How remarkable. Sure hope he keeps it going.
Agreed. Love the vision, enthusiasm, etc. Hate the business practices. The latter will start eroding the former if it keeps up. I would rather he had done a gofundme for AP/FSD than sold it the way he did.