The average price of nearly everything has been sky-rocketing, so perhaps it is not that things become more valuable, but the dollar becomes less valuable. In other words, inflation.
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Hostility to the transition to EVs?
- Thread starter Llama.
- Start date
ATPMSD
Active Member
They are not entirely wrong:
- Prime Minister Boris Johnson has announced a plan to ban sales of gasoline- and diesel-powered passenger cars in the U.K. beginning in 2035.
gigawatt1010
Member
I feel like this is a support group for ex-ICE drivers. LOL
I consider myself a petrolhead, just like some of the examples in this thread. I came from a world of Land Rovers and crazy British cars that mark their territory with oil drips. I love tinkering with them, I still do. I have clothes that despite how many washes, they still smell of 90wt oil. LOL
I got into Teslas because I am also a tech-head and a geek. I commute about 100miles daily for work and driving my Supercharged V8 L322 Range Rover was costing me an arm and a leg in gas. We took the plunge in 2016 with my Model S as a commuter car. I absolutely fell in love with it that when the Range Rover needed a new transmission, we traded it in for a Tesla Model X for my wife to drive. I still have my leaky Rovers, (a 1979 2dr RRC, a 1994 LWB RRC, a 1999 Disco1) and a Mini Cooper convertible for when I want to row my own gears. But those are all relegated to weekend duties and subject to tinkering. For commuting, nothing beats a Tesla. Oh, and this rabbit hole is deep - we just got 3 PowerWalls installed last week and on schedule to get Solar Glass installed next month. I guess I'm a Petrol head turned into a fanboi. LOL
As far as the "haters", I was at my barbershop getting a haircut this morning and one customer noticed that I drive a Tesla. My barber started telling this customer how he loves the car and he was so thrilled that I actually gave him a ride in it one time. The customer turned out to be one of those guys that loves to argue and started telling both me and my barber that we're all being fooled by Elon Musk. That electrification is not the answer to a "perceived" climate change. When I pressed him what he thought the answer was, he said, "I don't know, but it's not these goofy EVs that you guys drive around. Those things cause more pollution than gas cars, and that they break a lot and very unreliable, blah blah blah" I told him I have over 100k miles on my car and all I did was change the tires, he said I was one of the lucky ones. LOL
Those types of people are so set in their ways that there's no convincing them, so let them go on and believe what they believe.
I consider myself a petrolhead, just like some of the examples in this thread. I came from a world of Land Rovers and crazy British cars that mark their territory with oil drips. I love tinkering with them, I still do. I have clothes that despite how many washes, they still smell of 90wt oil. LOL
I got into Teslas because I am also a tech-head and a geek. I commute about 100miles daily for work and driving my Supercharged V8 L322 Range Rover was costing me an arm and a leg in gas. We took the plunge in 2016 with my Model S as a commuter car. I absolutely fell in love with it that when the Range Rover needed a new transmission, we traded it in for a Tesla Model X for my wife to drive. I still have my leaky Rovers, (a 1979 2dr RRC, a 1994 LWB RRC, a 1999 Disco1) and a Mini Cooper convertible for when I want to row my own gears. But those are all relegated to weekend duties and subject to tinkering. For commuting, nothing beats a Tesla. Oh, and this rabbit hole is deep - we just got 3 PowerWalls installed last week and on schedule to get Solar Glass installed next month. I guess I'm a Petrol head turned into a fanboi. LOL
As far as the "haters", I was at my barbershop getting a haircut this morning and one customer noticed that I drive a Tesla. My barber started telling this customer how he loves the car and he was so thrilled that I actually gave him a ride in it one time. The customer turned out to be one of those guys that loves to argue and started telling both me and my barber that we're all being fooled by Elon Musk. That electrification is not the answer to a "perceived" climate change. When I pressed him what he thought the answer was, he said, "I don't know, but it's not these goofy EVs that you guys drive around. Those things cause more pollution than gas cars, and that they break a lot and very unreliable, blah blah blah" I told him I have over 100k miles on my car and all I did was change the tires, he said I was one of the lucky ones. LOL
Those types of people are so set in their ways that there's no convincing them, so let them go on and believe what they believe.
mk677
Member
I have to disagree.
a 50K model 3 is not in the high price luxury category.
a Ford F150 dual cab will cost you more than what the model 3 costs.
maybe tesla has done away with free charging but porsche, audi, VW, ford, nissan and others offer free fast charging.
my porsche taycan charges a lot faster than any of my teslas ever did.
mk677
Member
why do you feel the need to convince anyone of anything?
if people ask about owning an EV I tell them the ins and outs of owning one, but I don't engage in any sort of proselytizing.
uujjj2
Member
If you've followed the debate over Tesla for a while, you know there's a lot of people out there who hate electric cars. HATE THEM. Lots of them on SeekingAlpha. Generally they hate the environmental movement, deny global warming, and oppose renewable energy as well.
mk677
Member
are you so fragile that you're affected by people who don't share your views?
mk677
Member
I suppose the disagree means that those tesla haters diminish your enjoyment of driving a great car.
that's sad.
I'll just throw this here here for anyone who hasn't seen it, since it contains a lot of the content of the thread:
theoatmeal.com
What it's like to own a Tesla Model S - A cartoonist's review of his magical space car - The Oatmeal
I wrote a comic about my Tesla Model S.
theoatmeal.com
Awesome link! Enjoyed a good laugh there.I'll just throw this here here for anyone who hasn't seen it, since it contains a lot of the content of the thread:
What it's like to own a Tesla Model S - A cartoonist's review of his magical space car - The Oatmeal
I wrote a comic about my Tesla Model S.
"Let's trivialise the devils we know and disparage the ones we don't. Let's put on our orang-utan suits and go f*****g bananas"
I didn't say the model 3 was in the "high price" luxury category. I said it was in the luxury sport vehicle category. Which it is. It sure as heck isn't in any average cost nor in an average performance category.
What a F150 dual cab costs is irrelevant. That's a different category altogether. Higher end pickups are also priced as luxury vehicles when compared across the larger pickup market. People don't cross-shop F150 dual cabs and BMW 3- and 4-series sports cars, typically. So their pricing scales are not closely related. They're serving separate markets.
Our HH income is roughly 3x the national median, or more than 2x the Colorado median. That puts us in the 90th percentile or so, give or take, nationally. So we're not middle class. Hard to consider yourself "middle" anything when you're in or near the 90th percentile. But most who know us would regard us as eminently middle class. We live what they would consider a middle class existence. Except that we don't. At least we don't in a statistical sense.
By this objective standard, there aren't any middle class drivers of late model Porsche's, much less Taycans. Congrats, by the way. I'm sure it's a fine ride.
All I'm saying is that any car that is priced $10k or 25% or more above the national average price is no longer an average priced car. Perhaps you've lost track of how the bottom 50% lives, or what they consider "average"? You wouldn't be alone in that.
Not following what charging speed has to do with charging cost. Unless you're referring to charging fees set up by the minute? I agree that many other manufacturers are offering free charging, for what it's worth, which given the inadequacies of their networks, is debatable for now. I hope those other networks figure out how to offer a reasonable user experience for a reasonable price.
At any event, I stand by my post. Teslas are not mainstream, "average" cars today. Which is fine. Why should they be? There's nothing wrong with being the BMW of EVs. Or the Porsche of EVs if you prefer. More power to them (Tesla, that is).
Transition will eventually happen, but it will take time. First of all, there are not that many decent EV cars available. Not everyone likes Tesla. I owned Model S 2013-2016 and will not consider Tesla vehicles anymore. I check forums occasionally to see what's new and if anything changed, but so far situation looks the same - adding more features takes priority over having quality software releases without regressions. I am currently shopping for BMW X5 V8. Might look at BMW iX when it becomes available.
Anyway, EVs are still too expensive for general population. Yes, even base M3 is expensive. People still can get way more car for less money with regular vehicles. Most Teslas and other EVs I see around neighborhood are second and third vehicles. Average age of passenger car in the US is 10+ years. EVs have to become cheaper, faster to charge, not require replacement of major components for 15+ years. Think Toyota Corolla or Honda Accord. No one cares if car can stream Netflix or can drive itself. It has to be cheap and reliable first. People need 3 row full size SUVs for $45-50K and not $100K+. They want minivans and pickup trucks, not sedans.
Anyway, EVs are still too expensive for general population. Yes, even base M3 is expensive. People still can get way more car for less money with regular vehicles. Most Teslas and other EVs I see around neighborhood are second and third vehicles. Average age of passenger car in the US is 10+ years. EVs have to become cheaper, faster to charge, not require replacement of major components for 15+ years. Think Toyota Corolla or Honda Accord. No one cares if car can stream Netflix or can drive itself. It has to be cheap and reliable first. People need 3 row full size SUVs for $45-50K and not $100K+. They want minivans and pickup trucks, not sedans.
You are missing that price reflects more popular models - SUVs and pickup trucks. Comparing base price of a sedan to what general public buys does not make much sense.
I have been pleased with my 2017 that I have owned since new. Also like the software updates. I can see where pre-AP2 might be better off with old versions of the software. Especially if the supercharging was slowed. But the pros for AP2 and above outweigh the cons IMO.
The only thing I did like with the older software was the ability to have two windows open and positioned how you wanted them. But not “that” big of deal with the current setup.
uujjj2
Member
The history of tech transitions is that they start out slow and then happen really fast. It takes a long time for the new tech to go from 0 to 10% marketshare, but then it goes from 10% to 90% almost overnight*. Landline to cell phone, dumb phone to smart phone, film camera to digital, tube TV to flat screen, propeller to jet airliners, and many other examples. It's very likely going to be the same with EVs.
*"Almost overnight" means about two product cycles. Automotive product cycles are ~6 years, so I think within about a dozen years of EVs hitting 10% market share, new car sales will be almost all EVs.
Check software forums on this very site. Same stuff - updates break things. Bugs I reported years ago are still there. Perhaps they are in places that are not important to you.
Software issues are not fixed under warranty despite the fact that Tesla warranty booklet does not distinguish between hardware and software issues. the car is 90% software and if you have problems it is like with smarphone or computer - report bug and pray someone cares to fix it. Thank you but car is not smartphone. It costs 100 times more.
Not so much in Europe. Over on this side of the pond they mainly want hatchbacks and smaller 5 seat SUVs. "Sedans" are also still pretty popular. The North American market is quite different, although there is now perhaps more overlap than there used to be as US buyers downsize and Europeans upsize their vehicles. Pickup trucks are even becoming a "lifestyle" choice in the UK now, but still very much a niche market here. Minivans are popular among families, but about half the size of what you would be used to!
Yep.
EVs have been politicalized in America. There is a large segment that otherwise don’t care about cars that are against them. Largely based on ignorance and being the easy targets of those that gain from delaying EV adoption.
Whether they hate EVs because of Tesla or they started hating Tesla because it’s EV is hard to say. Normally these same fools would be championing an American company, but you’ll find most of these folks aren’t bound by reason or logic. Anyone willing to buy the anti-EV narratives are likely continually easily duped in most things.
Agree.
Largely due to Tesla, it’s now more than just ICE vs BEV. Or environment benefits.
EVs are better coupled to IoT and AI. Big Data. And energy arbitrage. They’re Tech, not just the next generation of cars on the Detroitian family tree.
And with anything Tech, but particularly AI, the growth will not be linear. More users are more data, which improves the product. Then there’s the network effect. More users of new tech, the more people benefit from having one. In this case, things like charging infrastructure, but also by products like ancillary industries, like new energy arbitrage opportunities and better insurance.
I have a very small sample size, personal bias, etc., but here in Texas I'm sensing a pro-Tesla vibe as of late. The fact that Tesla is building a plant in Texas, and not California (boo!) is the reason.
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