-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
I continue to be amazed at the hatred for EVs
- Thread starter MikeRTX
- Start date
Your issues were with service, not with EVs. Driving an EV is far more convenient for the overwhelming majority of people. Where they currently fall short is range for towing.
Maybe large trucks purchased for towing would be more convenient if they were hybrid. Then they could still be emissionless for most of their drives, but fall back to ICE when pulling their massive, unnecessary, polluting boat.
For most people, there is......They cost less to own and run. Most people can't see past the sticker price in terms of deciding if it's a financial win to drive EVs, but they're more economical (including holding their resale value better) as long as there's a way to charge at home. It's not that difficult to have an EV if you can't charge at home, but it's not as economical.
I've personally not encountered any EV hatred, and I've driven my MY into the Deep South three times. Most people ask friendly questions. I think the current rash of negativity towards EVs in the US media has multiple causes. Some have been around a while, but others are more new.
1.) ICE auto and the oil companies probably figured Tesla and other EVs would have already reached a market saturation and at a lower level and/or their growth would be much slower than what's actually happening -- therefore no real threat. But despite the half-truths and cherry picked data in many legacy media stories, EVs continue to gain market share.
2.) ICE auto figured they could easily catch and surpass Tesla as soon as they got serious about it. Turns out electric vehicles have significant differences from ICE (and even hybrids).
3.) Legacy auto spends $$$billions on advertising. Tesla only tips their toe in the advertising water every once in a while. Ask yourself: from where does legacy media get most of its revenue?
4.) Based on 1-3 above, I think there's a not-so-secret whisper campaign -- behind the scenes, ICE auto executives are constantly highlighting the shortcomings of EVs (some real, some embellished, and likely some outright lies) to legacy media.
4.) Twitter/X, and other pronouncements from Elon. I don't want to start a political debate here. But it's obvious that many in the legacy media do not approve of Elon Musk, and they don't hesitate to let their dislike bleed through in their "reporting."
1.) ICE auto and the oil companies probably figured Tesla and other EVs would have already reached a market saturation and at a lower level and/or their growth would be much slower than what's actually happening -- therefore no real threat. But despite the half-truths and cherry picked data in many legacy media stories, EVs continue to gain market share.
2.) ICE auto figured they could easily catch and surpass Tesla as soon as they got serious about it. Turns out electric vehicles have significant differences from ICE (and even hybrids).
3.) Legacy auto spends $$$billions on advertising. Tesla only tips their toe in the advertising water every once in a while. Ask yourself: from where does legacy media get most of its revenue?
4.) Based on 1-3 above, I think there's a not-so-secret whisper campaign -- behind the scenes, ICE auto executives are constantly highlighting the shortcomings of EVs (some real, some embellished, and likely some outright lies) to legacy media.
4.) Twitter/X, and other pronouncements from Elon. I don't want to start a political debate here. But it's obvious that many in the legacy media do not approve of Elon Musk, and they don't hesitate to let their dislike bleed through in their "reporting."
Not exactly true. My issue with service is just one part - I also don't find the current Teslas compelling. I don't want a car without parking sensors or buttons for blinkers.
Yes that is a great propaganda point - the cost of owning of EV. I found from personal experience that the cost of owning EV is actually higher than owning ICE car. None of my BMWs have broken multiple times the first year out of warranty; for those years 4-7 were pretty much problem free. My Tesla had to be repaired 3 times in the first 8 months out of warranty. Apart from that - the one time I had a minor fender-bender and had to replace the bumper - even for that small repair the cost was $4K. Luckily the other person insurance paid for it - as it was their fault - but doesn't change the fact. The cost of owning EV is anything but low.
I, too, prefer having USS and stalks. But again, this has nothing to do with EVs.
Same - Tesla might be expensive for repairs, but this isn't a reflection on the cost of EV ownership in general. EVs are still in the minority, but they're much simpler in so many ways that they'll eventually be cheaper than ICE.
You own a BMW but then have complaints about the expenses of your Tesla... certainly BMWs are expensive to buy and maintain.
You're kind of proving the point of this thread. Your response to it includes a bunch of EV hate on an EV forum as an EV owner, and none of your complaints are even specific to EVs.
CapsEngineer
Member
At first I found this funny. Boat hate on a thread about EV hate.
Then, the more I thought about it, I think this shows one of the reasons for EV hate. Our consistent need to tell others how to live and what they need or don't need.
I've found from personal experience the cost of owning my EV is less than I've ever spent owning and running an ICE car. As they say in the car business, Your Mileage May Vary. So, two people heard from, 2 different experiences and opinions. Yawn.
fholbert
Active Member
If you combine the IQ of a talk radio audience, I’m pretty sure you‘d get a single digit number.
fholbert
Active Member
gtae07
Member
A wiser man than I once wrote that "A man will respond grudgingly to the lash of compulsion only so long as he must, but most of his energy will be consumed not in the accomplishment of the outcome sought by the governance, but in struggling free from the agent of his compulsion." If people are (or even think they are) being compelled to do something, especially if that something involves significant personal cost, sacrifice, inconvenience, disruption to their daily lives, etc. then they are going to push back. They won't care how much you try to tell them how much better off they'll be or how much good they're doing for everyone else. Try to make them do something, they'll resist--even if they'd otherwise happily do that same thing on their own.
This isn't helped by the condescension often prevalent among EV fans. Whether it's an attitude of "you're too stupid to know what's good for you" or "I know better than you what's best for your situation" or "you don't need that, what you really need is...". Ridiculing people and calling them stupid does not make them go "duh, I guess I'm stupid, I'd better listen to the smart person insulting me!" And dismissing someone's concerns in favor of your own strawmen--the good old "I support policy X because I want to help these people; they oppose policy X therefore they must want to hurt people!" fallacy--doesn't help your case either.
Then there's the economics... yeah, day to day pricing can often work out compared to a new vehicle... but most people still can't afford new vehicles. Talking about the price relative to the "average new car price" is irrelevant because most people aren't buying new vehicles, they're buying used. It's a Vimes' boots situation; the long term cost can work out well provided you have the cash up front to be able to afford the good stuff. In particular, the " 'just' go buy an EV if you don't like high gas prices" sounds an awful lot like "let them eat cake" to people who are driving older vehicles and getting hit hard with hundreds of dollars in gas expenditures each month--even if you took out gas costs, they can't afford to "just" spend the hundreds of dollars more on EV payments and insurance. Add in the tax credits that are widely perceived as subsidizing luxury cars for rich people (yes, even the $150k/$300k cutoff is rich compared to most of the country outside silicon valley and the big coastal cities) and you get a "F you and fancy cars" response.
Again, Vimes' boots. You have to be able to afford the purchase price. I had an elaborate spreadsheet that cross-referenced gas prices, driving distances, charge costs, loan amount, and so on to compare Teslas against Prius and Prius Prime when we were shopping earlier this year. It took that to show the cost to be neutral after a few years (ignoring resale, since we usually aim to drive cars till they die).
I live in the Deep South. No "hatred" from anyone. Some lame jokes, a few pretty funny lame jokes, a couple "must be nice..." comments, lots of questions and curiosity. I try to patiently and honestly answer the questions every time (if nothing else, I want that referral credit). Most people are like "oh, I didn't know that!" Surprised the heck out of a friend once showing him pictures of all the stuff I've towed in the last couple months.
THIS. There's a very common attitude that says "owning or doing anything outside the boundaries of what I consider 'normal' (and naturally, what I do and own is 'normal') should require justification". And another that says "the way I live is so self-evidently and objectively right that I have the duty and obligation to bribe/coerce/blackmail/force others into living this way too, and anyone who disagrees is too stupid to be allowed to choose". Bonus points if the intended target doesn't like it.
If you want to promote EV development and sales, drop the scaremongering, drop the ridicule, drop the "but GREEN!!!1!one!", drop the proselytizing, and drop the condescension. Share your personal experience--the ups and the downs. Emphasize the convenience of home charging, the instant performance, the cool features. If you're capable, help someone do the math on operating costs. If you trust someone, let them drive your car. That's what sold me (and many others I know) on going EV--personal experiences, the acceleration, doing the math, etc., not mandates or hyperbole. If someone's willing to do what you want them to do, let them do it without insisting they do it for the same reasons you do. If you will, the objective is sales, not converts.
That is hilarious. If I share honest impressions and negative points of EV ownership - that is "EV hate". Well we can't all be cheerleaders.I don't hate EVs - otherwise I wouldn't own one. In fact I slightly prefer them to ICE. Doesn't change any of the negative points.
"I, too, prefer having USS and stalks. But again, this has nothing to do with EVs."
Yes it does. If Tesla is the most compelling EV - and I cannot buy a Tesla with parking sensors - that ends up with one fewer EV buy. Because Tesla "doesn't do focus groups". They know better what you want; and if you don't want it - they'll ram it down your throat anyway. What possible reason is there to NOT have stalks for blinkers??
"You own a BMW but then have complaints about the expenses of your Tesla... certainly BMWs are expensive to buy and maintain."
Yes BMWs are expensive. And yet no BMW I've owned has cost me in 8 months out of warranty what Model 3 did. I count "cost of ownership" to include repairs and maintenance, not just fuel. Other people can disagree.
You can argue that is not a point against EVs - but in practice it has been expensive for me to own one - and much more inconvenient (due to the service experience). That very much affects my decision to buy another EV. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Overall - I think Tesla has an outstanding product in most ways. But they fail to make the user experience worthwhile in critical ways. A lot of people will buy their cars anyway - since they get more bang for the buck. And a lot of other people won't - cause they don't want weird controls and weeks without a car every time they need service.
fholbert
Active Member
Electric cars are having more problems, but not because they’re electric
New YorkCNN —
Electric vehicles have 79% more problems than other vehicles, according to Consumer Reports’ latest annual auto reliability survey. But the problem isn’t really because they’re electric, said Jake Fisher, director of the group’s auto testing center.
The problems arise because electric cars are mostly new models, and recently-introduced car models generally tend to have more issues, regardless of what propels them. Car companies haven’t had years to work out all the kinks as they have the models they’ve been producing for years.
Article here:
Consumer reports? Are people still taking that joke of a publication seriously? "I got in my car and didn't know how to put it in drive." That's the type of situation that would count as a 'problem' for CR. And I will never forget their high predicted reliability score for the Mach-E well after they were known to overheat in certain situations and was suffering from high voltage junction box failures left and right - which hasn't stopped.
And yet, in that that same article linked above, they were lumping them in with the Model 3 and Model Y, two EVs which are infinitely more reliable. Total scam publication, IMO.
And yet, in that that same article linked above, they were lumping them in with the Model 3 and Model Y, two EVs which are infinitely more reliable. Total scam publication, IMO.
Some people are hate just to hate. If they're a Dogs fan, then they hate the Gators. If they're A&M they hate UT. Base tribalism. Instinctual. What's worse is that their concerns (low range, hours to charge, etc) were true 10-15 years ago. ...and who has time to do research, amirite?
I just saw the meme "Can't afford gas? Just buy a $100,000 EV." I can't even respond to it anymore. It's so... uninformed. Let them roll coal like Mad Max Fury Road until the very end. I'd rather live with the Jetsons.
I just saw the meme "Can't afford gas? Just buy a $100,000 EV." I can't even respond to it anymore. It's so... uninformed. Let them roll coal like Mad Max Fury Road until the very end. I'd rather live with the Jetsons.
Most people I know who "hate EV's" actually just hate the government's meddling in things.
When I inform them that government is meddling with oil and corn subsidies etc., that government meddling argument is quickly ignored.
Similar threads
