JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I guess you have better cable service. Anytime I've checked it's always been slightly or significantly below the max.
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That would be 130 kw. For all we know there is some other limitation other than what the pack can handle. For example, charge port, cabling, etc. I don't think we have any recent evidence of any vehicle charging faster than 120 kw. We assume this is the theoretical maximum that the battery can accept, but that may not be correct.
A slight bit more even, but likely you're right. Many like referencing the Superchargers as 150kW or 135kW or whatever. If the 120kW is already maxing out the chargers, indeed little point making the packs larger from that perspective. I'm sure any other bottlenecks on board the car could be address if Tesla so wished.
I always considered the 100 packs as pre-throttled. They pack 25% more capacity than the 2012 S85 cars, but don't charge an electron quicker. Not ideal if Tesla just didn't have any room for speed development in the Superchargers themselves.
[off topic a bit]
We've seen the Semi Truck's Megachargers announced, possibly delivering around a MW. But where would A New Roadster charge? A supercharger would, if same 2170's as TM3 are used, make it top out around 120kW again, so nearly two hours to more or less full. A CCS plug would give it access to more juice at new chargers, perhaps achieving 200-250kW. Roadster absent at Superchargers, again? Really to counter the cars coming from Germany, Tesla needs to step it up, make S/X with bigger packs and faster charging, through pack size and at the cell level.
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But 135 or 150 increases the throughput and reduces the time for all vehicles at busy superchargers. I.e., first car to paired charger takes ... whatever (90, 116...); next car into the second of the paired chargers (assuming all other stations are already full or the driver doesn't know about the paired limitations) gets what is left over... so, a 150 supercharger will deliver a lot more to the second car.
I owned a Model S 85 for 2 1/2 years and have now had my Model X 90D for over a year. Currently, it seems Superchargers are not delivering anywhere near the charge rate in the last 6 to 8 months that I received the first 3 years. Tesla is diffidently limiting my charge, either with the SC or my car. Other than a trip to Canada last fall, I do not use Superchargers more than about twice a month for trips. I even charge at a 26 amp, 240 volt, rate at home and keep a 80% charge level unless traveling. I only have around 14,000 miles on the Model X.
PS: My car was in for annual service a couple of months ago and there were no issues found with it.
PS: My car was in for annual service a couple of months ago and there were no issues found with it.
FlyingCookie
Member
I think it's more than likely cabling, as at 333 amps (max current from a supercharger) the wire in our cars is already dissipating about 17 watts of heat PER FOOT. If they started trying to jam more current down the wire, it would just cause it to heat up faster, and then it would need to be throttled to prevent the cable from overheating.
I believe there is also a 333 amp limit on the connector itself, which at the low voltages used at low SOC, works out to be about 116kw. I've seen my car top out at 118kw at 25% SOC, but only for a few minutes before the taper kicks in. I've never personally witnessed 120kw, but I've also always had the A/C or heat on when i've plugged in, so that may be eating a bit of power. (When supercharging, the display only shows the power going into the battery, not the power going into the charge port)
I'm getting slightly lower than my advertised speeds for my internet service, but I'm ok with that:
As a side note, I have a loaner pack in my 90 due to some dead modules in my permanent pack and just took that same trip. Was getting between 104kw and 115kw, it was nice having full speed charging again. The throttling is definitely tied to the pack.
Also, they have a new Supercharger station in Colby KS, hallejula! It's so nice compared to the rest of the dumps they have the SCs at on that stretch of I70 between KC and Denver. It's at the Oasis there, with a dog park (My dogs thanked me profusely for having a place to pee this trip), Starbucks, Quiznos, gas station, the works... it's such a nice place to stop compared to all the rest. I wouldn't mind a 94kw charge rate at that station.
FlyingCookie
Member
I'm getting slightly lower than my advertised speeds for my internet service, but I'm ok with that:
As a side note, I have a loaner pack in my 90 due to some dead modules in my permanent pack and just took that same trip. Was getting between 104kw and 115kw, it was nice having full speed charging again. The throttling is definitely tied to the pack.
Also, they have a new Supercharger station in Colby KS, hallejula! It's so nice compared to the rest of the dumps they have the SCs at on that stretch of I70 between KC and Denver. It's at the Oasis there, with a dog park (My dogs thanked me profusely for having a place to pee this trip), Starbucks, Quiznos, gas station, the works... it's such a nice place to stop compared to all the rest. I wouldn't mind a 94kw charge rate at that station.
Dead modules, or dead cells? If you lose a single module, that would drop voltage of the pack by 24 volts, and you'd be stuck at a slower supercharging rate due to this. Is it possible that your service center somehow missed the dead modules (Surely they didn't?), or is this a development since after this thread was started?
MacGreiner
5YJ
I was getting such slow SC rates over the past month that I took it in to determine whether my 70D had been throttled (it wasn't). The service guy said that many SC's on the east coast had been reduced to 75% output. That said, I think my top rate of 65 KW is still not easily explained.
It was a development after the thread was started. Sometime in August, my range suddenly dropped significantly and my max amps on a Ludicrous launch was reduced. They checked and found a dead module and sent the pack out for refurbishment.
It will be interesting to see if your Supercharging usage gets reset as part of refurbishing the pack... (Assuming you actually get your old one back someday.)
Bjorn Nyland got a replacement 90 pack after the gremlins that goes him towed twice were not found soon enough. He still enjoy fast charging. The pack I think declares its age/history to the car, and the car or battery make sure to charge slower after a certain exposure to DC fast charging.
FlyF4
Son of a MX
Hmmm, it is an interesting thread. To me, the OP has too much vagueness of information in the post and is over the top in critique... ie "remove critical functionality.": Reduced charging over time is not what I would call critical functionality. Maybe that is because I understand battery chemistry and electronics of why and how it is being done. I understand that owners would love to have a car that continues to charge at the highest possible rates, but that just isn't possible at this time, regardless of how "throttling" as you call it, is done.
Even before researching and buying a Tesla, I knew from engineering experience that over time, the top end mileage and charging rate would vary and decrease under lots of conditions, so I guess that is why I am not disappointed in what I hear on this thread. Frankly, for me, the Supercharging is far faster than I need it to be on my trips, but for folks whom are on the road constantly, I guess it is a disappointment to see degradation over time. The Tesla is not really doing anything much differently than what your laptop or smartphone charging is doing or the battery recharger that is probably in the garage of many people. The best smart chargers will do similar things.
Even before researching and buying a Tesla, I knew from engineering experience that over time, the top end mileage and charging rate would vary and decrease under lots of conditions, so I guess that is why I am not disappointed in what I hear on this thread. Frankly, for me, the Supercharging is far faster than I need it to be on my trips, but for folks whom are on the road constantly, I guess it is a disappointment to see degradation over time. The Tesla is not really doing anything much differently than what your laptop or smartphone charging is doing or the battery recharger that is probably in the garage of many people. The best smart chargers will do similar things.
@FlyF4 - you are correct that as batteries degrade their internal resistance increases and this can lead to slow charge rates and acceleration.
However, that differs from what is described here. Here, Tesla has implemented a “cap” in the code that forcibly throttles charge rates after a certain amount of usage. All without disclosing this to the owner upfront. Disingenuous at the least, IMO.
However, that differs from what is described here. Here, Tesla has implemented a “cap” in the code that forcibly throttles charge rates after a certain amount of usage. All without disclosing this to the owner upfront. Disingenuous at the least, IMO.
X Fan
Active Member
I must have lucked out with my 90.
Rated at 257 and still charging full to 252 after 20 months and 40k Miles.
Have you rooted and checked the real figures? Those who have claim that 90 kWh is masking the reality through software.
It took these guys to also find out what Tesla had been doing with 90 kWh performance throttling, 90 kWh DC charging limitations etc...
I'm not saying it isn't possible yours is doing better. Just that rated is unfortunately not allegedly the way to check it.
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