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Jaguar I-Pace

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#721
I'm thinking really hard about the i-Pace. It seems to nearly solve all of my complaints about the Model S:

1) The Model S presenting handles aren't ideal and many of us have had them repaired / replaced umpteen times.

2) The interior of the Model S is too austere for many people (myself included) and I never liked spending $91k and having an interior that didn't feel luxurious and over-the-top comfortable. I also like storage and door pockets. I like having a large storage cavity under the armrests. I also like being able to pick and choose the interior options, I want dark brown seats with wood trim. I like having options, I like having a plush luxurious sumptuous interior. Tesla misses the mark big time IMO on those points. (You don't need to tell me how much you like the simplicity of Tesla's interior. I've lived with it for over three years, I know what I like and don't like about it)

3) I like the dealer model as I've had a lot of trouble getting through to anyone at Tesla corporate when going through problems. Weeks go by with no replies. Promises get made, and never kept. With dealers, you have people fighting for you against the manufacturer, and also can get help from the manufacturer to fight against a dealer. With Tesla, it's black and white, they say no, you have no recourse. Ordering parts is also much more of a chore with Tesla.

4) Compliant ride quality. I find the Model S to be tuned for sport, not how I want a large luxury touring car to ride. I get it, but I don't want it personally.

5) While Tesla has AutoPilot and the awesome large touchscreen, Jaguar has most of what AutoPilot provides, and also lots of tech that Tesla has stubbornly ignored which literally every other luxury manufacturer offers, namely Heads-Up Displays, 360 camera, black chrome-less option (oh I love this), cooled seats, heated windshield, gesture-opening tailgate, multi-zone HVAC, spare tire (!!), etc. I like that stuff. I think I might give up full AutoPilot to have all of those things. The Jag still has 90% of what AP is today.

What is giving me pause?

1) Supercharging. I only use this on road trips, so it's not a huge deal. I am planning on getting a PHEV for road trips because I don't like planning my travel around supercharging anyway, so it's not really a big deal. I think the universal DC fast charging system is going to be bigger than the Supercharger network anyhow. So .. that's probably a tie.

2) Experience. Tesla's been making the Model S for over six years, and has improved it a zillion times over those years. The Jag is a brand new car. Look at what happened with Chrysler's Pacifica Hybrid - one tiny part was bad and they were out of commission for six months while they redesigned it and deployed it nationwide. Jag is a huge company with resources and R&D, but @#$ happens. I hate buying a brand new car with no track record. Tesla's first years were filled with replacing entire drive units for lots and lots of vehicles.

So that's where I am. Not sure what to do. I also feel like if I buy a Model S, the day after it arrives they'll announce an amazing new feature or hardware change and I'm screwed.
 
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#722
I recently started to casually think about trading our Model X for an i-Pace, but after the initial excitement, I came back to Earth realizing a lot of the cool things Tesla has that I will miss. Supercharging, of course, but also OTA updates which I think are very underrated. Also, the touchscreen in Teslas is so good that I don't think I would be happy with anything else right now. I'm definitely spoiled by Tesla. Oh, and I hate buying cars from dealers so there's that too.
 
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#723
MileHighMotoring said:
I'm thinking really hard about the i-Pace. It seems to nearly solve all of my complaints about the Model S:

1) The Model S presenting handles aren't ideal and many of us have had them repaired / replaced umpteen times.

2) The interior of the Model S is too austere for many people (myself included) and I never liked spending $91k and having an interior that didn't feel luxurious and over-the-top comfortable. I also like storage and door pockets. I like having a large storage cavity under the armrests. I also like being able to pick and choose the interior options, I want dark brown seats with wood trim. I like having options, I like having a plush luxurious sumptuous interior. Tesla misses the mark big time IMO on those points. (You don't need to tell me how much you like the simplicity of Tesla's interior. I've lived with it for over three years, I know what I like and don't like about it)

3) I like the dealer model as I've had a lot of trouble getting through to anyone at Tesla corporate when going through problems. Weeks go by with no replies. Promises get made, and never kept. With dealers, you have people fighting for you against the manufacturer, and also can get help from the manufacturer to fight against a dealer. With Tesla, it's black and white, they say no, you have no recourse. Ordering parts is also much more of a chore with Tesla.

4) Compliant ride quality. I find the Model S to be tuned for sport, not how I want a large luxury touring car to ride. I get it, but I don't want it personally.

5) While Tesla has AutoPilot and the awesome large touchscreen, Jaguar has most of what AutoPilot provides, and also lots of tech that Tesla has stubbornly ignored which literally every other luxury manufacturer offers, namely Heads-Up Displays, 360 camera, black chrome-less option (oh I love this), cooled seats, heated windshield, gesture-opening tailgate, multi-zone HVAC, spare tire (!!), etc. I like that stuff. I think I might give up full AutoPilot to have all of those things. The Jag still has 90% of what AP is today.

What is giving me pause?

1) Supercharging. I only use this on road trips, so it's not a huge deal. I am planning on getting a PHEV for road trips because I don't like planning my travel around supercharging anyway, so it's not really a big deal. I think the universal DC fast charging system is going to be bigger than the Supercharger network anyhow. So .. that's probably a tie.

2) Experience. Tesla's been making the Model S for over six years, and has improved it a zillion times over those years. The Jag is a brand new car. Look at what happened with Chrysler's Pacifica Hybrid - one tiny part was bad and they were out of commission for six months while they redesigned it and deployed it nationwide. Jag is a huge company with resources and R&D, but @#$ happens. I hate buying a brand new car with no track record. Tesla's first years were filled with replacing entire drive units for lots and lots of vehicles.

So that's where I am. Not sure what to do. I also feel like if I buy a Model S, the day after it arrives they'll announce an amazing new feature or hardware change and I'm screwed.
Click to expand...
I’m with you on this, until Tesla came along I have had Jags since 1970 and loved them. I would have to drive an ipace and see one in person. We love both our S and X but my S is 5 years old, long trips are an issue with the ipace but do not do many of them and could take the X. We will see.
 
#724
gavine said:
I recently started to casually think about trading our Model X for an i-Pace, but after the initial excitement, I came back to Earth realizing a lot of the cool things Tesla has that I will miss. Supercharging, of course, but also OTA updates which I think are very underrated. Also, the touchscreen in Teslas is so good that I don't think I would be happy with anything else right now. I'm definitely spoiled by Tesla. Oh, and I hate buying cars from dealers so there's that too.
Click to expand...

Can't help you with the supercharging or dealer issues. However a FYI, the i-pace is offering OTA updates.

https://media.jaguar.com/2018/new-all-electric-jaguar-i-pace-wireless-and-intelligent
 
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#725
MileHighMotoring said:
I'm thinking really hard about the i-Pace. It seems to nearly solve all of my complaints about the Model S:

1) The Model S presenting handles aren't ideal and many of us have had them repaired / replaced umpteen times.

2) The interior of the Model S is too austere for many people (myself included) and I never liked spending $91k and having an interior that didn't feel luxurious and over-the-top comfortable. I also like storage and door pockets. I like having a large storage cavity under the armrests. I also like being able to pick and choose the interior options, I want dark brown seats with wood trim. I like having options, I like having a plush luxurious sumptuous interior. Tesla misses the mark big time IMO on those points. (You don't need to tell me how much you like the simplicity of Tesla's interior. I've lived with it for over three years, I know what I like and don't like about it)

3) I like the dealer model as I've had a lot of trouble getting through to anyone at Tesla corporate when going through problems. Weeks go by with no replies. Promises get made, and never kept. With dealers, you have people fighting for you against the manufacturer, and also can get help from the manufacturer to fight against a dealer. With Tesla, it's black and white, they say no, you have no recourse. Ordering parts is also much more of a chore with Tesla.

4) Compliant ride quality. I find the Model S to be tuned for sport, not how I want a large luxury touring car to ride. I get it, but I don't want it personally.

5) While Tesla has AutoPilot and the awesome large touchscreen, Jaguar has most of what AutoPilot provides, and also lots of tech that Tesla has stubbornly ignored which literally every other luxury manufacturer offers, namely Heads-Up Displays, 360 camera, black chrome-less option (oh I love this), cooled seats, heated windshield, gesture-opening tailgate, multi-zone HVAC, spare tire (!!), etc. I like that stuff. I think I might give up full AutoPilot to have all of those things. The Jag still has 90% of what AP is today.

What is giving me pause?

1) Supercharging. I only use this on road trips, so it's not a huge deal. I am planning on getting a PHEV for road trips because I don't like planning my travel around supercharging anyway, so it's not really a big deal. I think the universal DC fast charging system is going to be bigger than the Supercharger network anyhow. So .. that's probably a tie.

2) Experience. Tesla's been making the Model S for over six years, and has improved it a zillion times over those years. The Jag is a brand new car. Look at what happened with Chrysler's Pacifica Hybrid - one tiny part was bad and they were out of commission for six months while they redesigned it and deployed it nationwide. Jag is a huge company with resources and R&D, but @#$ happens. I hate buying a brand new car with no track record. Tesla's first years were filled with replacing entire drive units for lots and lots of vehicles.

So that's where I am. Not sure what to do. I also feel like if I buy a Model S, the day after it arrives they'll announce an amazing new feature or hardware change and I'm screwed.
Click to expand...
You do realize that the iPace is the only other production car that has the exact same style of presenting door handles that the Model S has, right?

Or do you just assume that Jaguar will make a more reliable version?
 
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#726
I believe the I-Pace also has presenting door handles.

It's basically 'another version' of a Tesla in format..! But I like it and it may address some of Tesla's shortcomings even if other stuff may be poorer.

But here in Afrika where the I-Pace is coming and Tesla..???? means I may have to go I-Pace
 
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#727
Sunlight said:
I believe the I-Pace also has presenting door handles.

It's basically 'another version' of a Tesla in format..! But I like it and it may address some of Tesla's shortcomings even if other stuff may be poorer.

But here in Afrika where the I-Pace is coming and Tesla..???? means I may have to go I-Pace
Click to expand...

Ironically where Elon Musk was born and raised.
 
#731
gavine said:
I recently started to casually think about trading our Model X for an i-Pace, but after the initial excitement, I came back to Earth realizing a lot of the cool things Tesla has that I will miss. Supercharging, of course, but also OTA updates which I think are very underrated. Also, the touchscreen in Teslas is so good that I don't think I would be happy with anything else right now. I'm definitely spoiled by Tesla. Oh, and I hate buying cars from dealers so there's that too.
Click to expand...
So I finally checked about this "Supercharging" and apparently its "a maximum of 120 kW per car". And CCS 2.0 "charges up to 350 kW in the range 200 - 1000 V."
So I see that "Superchargers" are slower than CCS 2.0, or am I missing something here?
 
#732
On paper CCS2 is faster than current SC.

What you are missing is that in practice you are limited by what your car/battery can absorb.
iPace charging data is not yet available, here is what Bolt can do in practice:
PQsTsG0.png


*Every* real battery will see charging power decrease as SOC rises.
The only battery where this does not happen is with one that can only charge at abysmally low power rate, with one having no internal resistance or with one that is totally unaffected with forced voltage.
 
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#733
iPace battery max voltage is around 450V, so forget about those 350kW@800V.
And also "Limited by fastcharge capabilities of vehicle": 100kW.

So, iPace can take at most 100kW with still unknown charging power tapering profile.
They advertise that charging from 10% to 80%SOC takes 40 minutes.
70% of 85kWh usable capacity is 60kWh. During 40minutes this results in 90kW average charging power.

Theoretical tapering that results in 90kW average during charging 10%-80%soc:
a) 10%-80%@90kW (not possible)
b)
10%-45%@100kW
45%-80%@80kW
c)
10%-40%@100kW
40%-50%@90kW
50%-80%@80kW
e) (possible)
10%-40%@100kW
40%-55%@90kW
55%-70%@80kW
70%-80%@70kW
...
 
Last edited:
#735
Nobody knows what the 90kWh battery and it's cooling system will handle.
We do know there is limited CCS support outside of coastal urban areas as of May 2018.
But the i-Pace is not available yet, and the CCS contracts are being executed.

And there is always the chance of a Sept Surprise. If Jag is like other mfrs, they are still in the development, testing, and mfg'g engineering cycle. The Bolt ended up both quicker and with longer range when it hit showrooms than when it began testing.
 
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#740
The brochures are out. For the FE version, standard equipment:
  • It charges at 100 kW if the charger supports it, 80% in under 1hr. 7 kW onboard charger, 12.9h.
  • Automatic Emergency Braking operates at speeds up to 99 mph.
  • Automatic Steering works much like Tesla. If you take your hands off for too long, it warns you. If you ignore it, then it turns it off, but leaves ACC on.
  • It has a heat pump.
  • It has an eco mode to maximize climate control and powertrain to maximize range.
  • It uses two PM motors, identical, 12,500 rpm 394HP/512TQ combined, 124mph limiter.
  • 8 year 100,000 miles on traction battery to 70% capacity.
  • Acoustic dampening technologies and materials.
  • Driver's side front charge port.
  • Forged alum double wishbone front suspension, Integral Link rear with forged alum links.
  • Torque Vectoring is based on brakes. No LSD that I can tell.
  • It has dynamic electronic dampening and air suspension. It lowers itself 0.4" at freeway speeds automatically, or lifts the car 1" at speed of up to 31mph (OFFROAD1) or 1.9" for speeds up to 25mph (OFFROAD2).
  • Low speed cruise control system for off-road or ice/snow for crawling at 2mph-18mph without wheelspin.
  • AdSR from Land Rover for traction control off road, steers like a tractor if necessary.
  • Programmable Dynamic Mode for sport driving, allows individual settings for throttle tip-in, suspension dampening, steering weight. You can pre-tune it, or let it use it's own algorithm.
  • Comfort setting for handling and suspension adjusts based on road conditions automatically.
  • Head's Up Display.
  • 825w Meridian audio system.
  • Will collect tracking data and email it for logging work-related trips, etc.
  • Driver Condition Monitor. Warns you if you start to nod off.
  • Adaptive speed limiter reads street signs and sets cruise according.
  • Clear to Exit monitor warns passenger not to open doors if traffic is coming.
  • Blindspot Monitoring will nudge steering if you try to change lanes into a car.
  • Stop and Go cruise control.
  • 360° Bird's Eye camera.
  • Rollover mitigation. If car starts to roll over, it will try to stop it by brake steering.
  • Regen anti-lock system.
  • Activity Car Key. Waterproof, you wear it like a watch when you want to leave everything at the car, including your car keys.
  • Heated windshield and washer fluid.
  • All LED lighting.
 
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