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Loosing maps / satellite imagery

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Not had this before - until reading this thread last night and driving today….. 🤣

Went from Gloucester to Weston-super-mare. As I came off the motorway for the last bit of the journey, I lost maps and couldn’t even get non-google satnav maps to show.

On the way back, 7 hours later, all was fine - until I reached the motorway. Literally the exact opposite of the journey there. 🤯 when I hand this courtesy car back, I’ll leave my car on whatever software version it’s on until this is fixed.
Its always the same , i leave Weston and within 5-10 miles the map has disappeared sometimes not returning even on an over 100 mile journey.
 
Yes, but we're unlikely to go out of bounds on our tiny islands.
Sure, but since this thread is about people on your tiny islands losing maps when they lose connectivity, they might benefit from the easy work-around I presented while spreading (or implying) the incorrect notion that all the maps are automatically downloaded when they're updated isn't helping anyone.
 
Not had this before - until reading this thread last night and driving today….. 🤣

Went from Gloucester to Weston-super-mare. As I came off the motorway for the last bit of the journey, I lost maps and couldn’t even get non-google satnav maps to show.

On the way back, 7 hours later, all was fine - until I reached the motorway. Literally the exact opposite of the journey there. 🤯 when I hand this courtesy car back, I’ll leave my car on whatever software version it’s on until this is fixed.


I've seen that in that same area, I drove from Clevedon to Newport and the maps disappeared all along the M5/M4 and only reappeared when I parked in Newport centre.
 
On the way back, 7 hours later, all was fine - until I reached the motorway. Literally the exact opposite of the journey there. 🤯 when I hand this courtesy car back, I’ll leave my car on whatever software version it’s on until this is fixed.

It's affecting cars on multiple different software versions so I'm doubting it's caused by the newest version. Too many reports for this to be hardware on individual cars so can only presume it's somehow related to the map serving processes and/or its network connectivity to the car. The car does cache the "tile" you are currently driving within but it then has to call up the next relevant area as you reach the limit of your current tile ... there's something going on (or not) at that interface. I suppose it could be the car not requesting the download or it could be the server not responding to the car's request. If it's the former then I suppose it could be solved by car software ... otherwise we have to wait for the serving end to be sorted out.
 
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Sure, but since this thread is about people on your tiny islands losing maps when they lose connectivity, they might benefit from the easy work-around I presented while spreading (or implying) the incorrect notion that all the maps are automatically downloaded when they're updated isn't helping anyone.
They're not necessarily losing connectivity - from the OP:
Not sure about LTE connectivity on the car, (Spotify didn't drop at all)
 
I had a service appointment today for the boot lid wiring harness recall, and the guy said that it should be fixed in an update that is rolling out. He reckons one of his co-workers had the issue and it's gone for him since the update so fingers crossed he's right as it's a bit of a nuisance. He didn't give me a specific update revision unfortunately, maybe I'll have a look later at what recent updates there are.

His explanation was that there is an issue which EE and Google are fighting about over the unreliable connection - the SW update doesn't fix this, but makes the car better able to recover from a connectivity issue*. Someone upthread mentioned leaving Weston. I drive past Weston on the M5 every day and there's something about that area - not sure exactly where - that seems to trigger the issue. I mentioned my recent trip to Scotland, I rebooted the car when stopping at The Mall in Bristol and had no problems for the entire trip... until I got back to that bit of the M5.

* Maybe the car has a resource leak when connectivity is unreliable, for instance. So even if the underlying problem isn't fixed, maybe they can improve the car's behaviour to be more robust.
 
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I noted that within minutes of crossing the Serbian border I lost all maps etc and put it down to the Tesla roaming agreement not covering Serbia. The fact that everything quickly restored as we approached the Hungarian border seemed to support the idea.
 
Yes, but we're unlikely to go out of bounds on our tiny islands.
There are places though where there’s either no signal or that fake signal where it says you have it until you try to do anything to find it doesn’t actually work. Plus you can drive abroad of course.

Not having offline maps is stupid. The car I’m sure has enough storage space and if not it’s dirt cheap, why would you not cache maps in the car? They’d use less data than streaming the maps constantly.

Also the one advantage you could think of would be having always up to date maps yet the map date is still showing as from 2022 in my wife’s car. Forget what month but no map update this year, I think my Land Rover gets an update to the map once a month roughly which it caches in the car.
 
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There are places though where there’s either no signal or that fake signal where it says you have it until you try to do anything to find it doesn’t actually work. Plus you can drive abroad of course.

Not having offline maps is stupid. The car I’m sure has enough storage space and if not it’s dirt cheap, why would you not cache maps in the car? They’d use less data than streaming the maps constantly.

Also the one advantage you could think of would be having always up to date maps yet the map date is still showing as from 2022 in my wife’s car. Forget what month but no map update this year, I think my Land Rover gets an update to the map once a month roughly which it caches in the car.
What's the big map update we get every year for?
Genuine question.
 
Not having offline maps is stupid. The car I’m sure has enough storage space and if not it’s dirt cheap, why would you not cache maps in the car? They’d use less data than streaming the maps constantly.

They don't stream the maps constantly ... they download one map for the area you are in then download the next when you drive into an adjacent area. I agree that it would be better if a larger area could be in the cache at any one time. However, despite having driven pretty much from one end of the country to the other the number of maps my car will have used since 2019 will be a tiny percentage of the entire UK mapping (and there has been a couple of full map revisions over that time) so in terms of total map data downloaded it may be an advantage to do it this way ... though I don't know that. Maybe the theoretical advantage* is that you get a fresh up-to-date map each time. [* I say theoretical because you don't actually get a fresh up-to-date map each time!!]
 
What's the big map update we get every year for?
Genuine question.
Well this is why I am wondering on this also. If the car is only caching a copy of some map tiles, why do Tesla not update the maps more often on the server end. It doesn't even need a map date or release, they could just say it's always pretty much the latest map from their mapping provider.

A few weeks ago I went to Norfolk for Easter, it's a popular place for people to go in these situations so was a tailback on the A11 as getting closer to Norwich. The car had me go a more rural route and for almost all of that I just had a blue line on a blank map. Last weekend I went back to Norfolk again, another bank holiday and same issue. Went the same route as a detour to avoid traffic and the map was blank again.

Streaming music not working as there's just not good signal in that area. So effectively based on Tesla's approach here, if they need to download the map tile when I'm near it or going into it but it cannot because there's no working signal in that area it'll never have a map of the area. This to me means they need to make the map tiles much larger and cache them earlier including ones nearby even if you are originally routed that way just incase you go a different route. Otherwise you'll find places where you'll never get a map showing.

Still think the easier way is to ship the car with a copy of all of Europe for instance and then just do delta updates on UK maps or country you are in as required. This way you always have mapping and routing even if the data signal is not available.
 
I've had no experience of loss of maps for extended periods of time, although several losses for short periods of time. Some of these have gone right back to early ownership days, and seeing the behaviour of entering new areas for the first time.

I've worked with our own tile servers, including building and seeding from scratch. I am wondering if we are seeing something similar to the scenario below, with 6, 7 (and possibly 8) being recent behaviour.

1. A new tile server needs to get a large download of vector data. I believe this is what we see in the 'annual' map updates.
2. Over a period of time, this vector data is then rasterised into tiles. This can happen on demand, or an area be pre 'seeded'/rasterised, or most often, a bit of both, #3
3. Rasterised tiles are created at various zoom levels. One pre-seeding may be a country wide set of tiles but at fairly coarse zoom level. If you then zoom in, a higher level detail tile is created - its often easy to see this as a tile suddenly becomes clearer when the higher zoom level tile replaces the lower resolution proxy view. This should be pretty seamless, but not always. I was especially aware of this just after our MCU got replaced, when I had a reference of previous MCU performance vs new MCU - almost as if whole country was no longer pre rasterised at low zoom level.
4. These raster tiles take up significantly more space than the vector definitions, especially when held at various zoom levels. So tiles would effectively be cached, with more frequently used tiles being instantly available whilst others requiring to go through the rasterization process again.
5. Certainly as far as our MCU2 car is concerned, I have seen tile updates becoming much less fluid over the years, almost as if they are not caching as much tile data, maybe as a result of MCU resources having to be better managed - based on several observations over the years and more recently by functionality to delete some unused resources such as games - ie MCU is running low on disc space.

I believe that the above is approximately what has been happening until recently although not entirely as I have had the very odd occasion where I lost a new tile for a few seconds, although this may just been down to unusually slow update of a low resolution tile is replaced by a higher resolution tile.

6. I think what we are experiencing now is a result of recent changes on how Tesla is using map data, possibly coinciding with 'alternate route' functionality?
7. Since alternate route, Tesla now seem (documented elsewhere) to be sending regular additional map information updates which is then incorporated into the current tile, or even back into the underlying vector data.
8. There may also be a UI change with a slightly different map view also requiring an extra set of tile data which is contributing to the issue.

IF, there was an error in this process, and it was not tolerant of download/update errors (ie poorly implemented), then I can see that you may well lose tiles until the condition had been recovered from, ie after multiple downloads or reboot.

Errors, especially mobile network errors are a fact of life. Handling those cleanly, especially ones that may use a long timeout before error is flagged (TCP may try to recover from a network issue and keep hold of the connection for significant period of time), should hopefully be a software change, possibly a tweak to the timeouts. This would certainly explain some of the extended outages reported here etc.

Just my empirical 2p.
 
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Might be the case that the maps are indeed stored locally but a glitch in the implementation means that whatever is responsible for streaming them to the renderer also stops working when the car loses its internet connection.
Sounds like someone hasn't written an async process or has experience with proper multithreading.

This is all fixable by Tesla at least without any hardware changes. Assuming they see it as a problem and want to fix it.
 
My theory is that the map data is already in the car and the overlays e.g. satellite view, traffic data which are overlayed on the top of the map are downloaded (may also be additional up to date map data as MrB suggests above).

I think the problem arises because the car doesn't draw the full map+overlays until it has all the data. So if there is a problem with one of the downloads and no timeout occurs the car just sits waiting for the overlay data and presents a blank screen. It would also explain why it stays blank for the whole journey after reaching a particular point on the motorway, rather than reappear when on a new tile. Perhaps the software fix is to force a timeout.

Incidentally I paid for my Tesla mostly by helping EE integrate into BT's network. They very much had a small shop mentality when I worked with them. They couldn't quite comprehend the scale BT worked on so I'm not surprised they have been fingered in this.
 
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