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Made in China Model 3: Build Quality / Hardware Differences
- Thread starter Llama.
- Start date
Rustybkts
Member
For all those worried about cars arriving with LiFePo4 (LFP) cells, look at it this way, they are far safer as they do not burn in the way that the slightly higher capacity cobalt dosed cells do.
I have been using them on my home builds since 2008 and wouldn't dare to use a LiIon (NMC) cell on a home build.
All my cars have a BMS to protect each cell from abuse but it can happen as I have occasionally ran the pack flat then over rode the BMS to charge them up again. Doesn't do much for pack longevity but you certainly would not do that with LiIon!
You can also get a fault on the BMS which can end up overcharging a cell which on a LiIon can self ignite but can hammer a nail through a LiFePo4 cell and get away with it.
All cells have energy that will be released if damaged enough so no cell is 100% safe.
I have been using them on my home builds since 2008 and wouldn't dare to use a LiIon (NMC) cell on a home build.
All my cars have a BMS to protect each cell from abuse but it can happen as I have occasionally ran the pack flat then over rode the BMS to charge them up again. Doesn't do much for pack longevity but you certainly would not do that with LiIon!
You can also get a fault on the BMS which can end up overcharging a cell which on a LiIon can self ignite but can hammer a nail through a LiFePo4 cell and get away with it.
All cells have energy that will be released if damaged enough so no cell is 100% safe.
Looks very well finished. Too well finished compared to mine, I wish I hadn’t watched!
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
As above, LiFePO4 (LFP) cells ARE lithium ion cells, they use exactly the same energy storage principle as every other lithium ion cell, i.e. lithium ion transfer from one electrode to another when charging or discharging, versus some other types of secondary cell that use changes in the cell internal chemistry as the energy storage mechanism.
In terms safety, LiFePO4 cells are a great deal less less prone to fires than LiCoO2 cells, certainly, but LiNiMnCoO2 cells (NMC) are a lot safer than LiCoO2 cells. Certainly LiNiMnCoO2 cells are not as free from fire risk as LiFePO4 cells, but they aren't far off. I did some destructive testing on a few early NMC cells, Samsung 18650s, and they behaved pretty much the same as when I did similar tests on some early Headway LiFePO4 cells, in that nothing much happened when they were punctured or crushed, other than a bit of smoke and heat from the energy discharge. Neither went up violently in flames, like the older LiCoO2 cells did under test.
Could somebody PLEASE post the first 8 digits of the VIN of a Model 3 Long Range and Standard Range+ that is scheduled to be delivered in February or March?
Based on this information we can tell whether the car was manufactured in Freemont or Shanghai. This would clarfify the origin. Only the last digits are unique so your car can not be identified.
Based on this information we can tell whether the car was manufactured in Freemont or Shanghai. This would clarfify the origin. Only the last digits are unique so your car can not be identified.
from the vin decoder site, the 11th character is the plant, F for Fremont, P for Palo Alto, C for China
I presume this site?
https://tesla-info.com/vin-decoder.php
They don't have many China cars actually listed yet but the coding seems right for China,
ACarneiro
Active Member
Dunno how Tesla worked around it on Superchargers but I have charged above 200kW on v3 superchargers...
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
As mentioned above, they cheat, by rating their versions of the CCS2 connector above the official rating in the standard. In practice, what they are doing is trading temperature rise with time, and banking on the >500 A (~ >200 kW) charge time being so short as to not cause the connector to overheat to a level beyond which the indirect liquid cooling system can deal with. No real problem with taking this approach, as all CCS2 connectors have thermal sensing anyway, so the charger can just throttle back if the weather's a bit warm and the connector starts to heat up too much.
The only issue is that the dimensions of the connector pins were sized around a 500 A maximum, so there may be an issue with longevity if the 500 A absolute maximum current is exceeded on a very regular basis. The chances are this isn't going to happen, though, as few users will charge regularly at >200 kW, it's probably a fairly unusual set of circumstances that allows the car to accept a charge at this sort of level for more than a few minutes, I suspect.
john19951
Member
Another guess would be VIN 1st 8 chars = LRW3F7FB for the China LRs. The "F" at 7th position is for a LFP battery.
But I'm not convinced that this "F" would be used, even if the battery were not exactly the same as in US LRs. That means the LRW3F7EB suggested above is just as possible.
But I'm not convinced that this "F" would be used, even if the battery were not exactly the same as in US LRs. That means the LRW3F7EB suggested above is just as possible.
Cardo
Active Member
This is the question that’s been bouncing around. However, I don’t think that answer is correct.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Sounds odd, if by "lithium phosphate" the Tesla person meant LiFePO4, lithium iron phosphate, cells, as I didn't think that LG Chem made this type of cell for EV use. The LG cells used in other EVs are LiNiMnCoO2 (NMC) as far as I know.
Maybe there was some confusion between cell chemistry being used in the different models, as the Shanghai plant uses CATL LiFePO4 cells for the SR+ cars, and LG Chem cells (presumably LiNiMnCoO2 (NMC)) cells in the AWD models, I thought.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Sounds like it. I'm pretty sure the LG cells used in the Shanghai cars are LiNiMnCoO2 (NMC), probably a similar chemistry (but different format) to the cells used by Hyundai and Kia.
I think that is what they said at Battery Day last year? High cycle packs (SR+, the forthcoming $25K model) and grid-sized megapacks would use iron-based batteries. LR cars and Powerwalls would use NMC and mass-dependant (Semi and CyberTruck) would use high nickel batteries.
From Reuters and seems to suggest the LG batteries are not LFP and in fact are NMC as @Glan gluaisne states:
Tesla battery supplier LG Chem shares jump 10% on upbeat outlook
From the article:
LG Chem said its batteries have an edge over the cheaper, LFP batteries from Chinese rival and Tesla supplier CATL, saying the latter’s lower energy density makes it difficult to be used for longer-range, large cars.
“The LFP batteries can be used in relatively short-range cars which are sensitive to prices... We believe that our nickel-cobalt-manganese (NCM) batteries can be mainstream globally,” said Chang Seung-se, senior vice president at LG Chem, referring to its nickel-based batteries.
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