Major 2021 Model X refresh pending [Update: Unveiled January 27, 2021]

[DoctorVenkman]

Would hate to see Tesla waste time, effort, resources on a gimmick.

Yeah, Tesla has clearly demonstrated that it's unwilling to waste time and effort on gimmicks. I'll tell that to fart mode, sensing rain drops via vision instead of a $5 sensor, smart summon, console games, christmas light show, etc etc... Clearly they are willing to waste time on a gimmick as long as Elon approves of it.

The fact of the matter is that Tesla is far behind the competition when it comes to interior amenities. They make up for it with amazing battery tech and drivetrains, but the competition will catch up to them on that front eventually. They will need to make their top-line models' interiors more competitive, especially if they are going to be asking $80k+ for them.

 

[wildstar]

Tesla prices the X in the luxury SUV category based on technology alone. They don’t and won’t ever care about the creature comforts or being the most luxurious. They will never sell a car with these features regardless of the price. They care about their software, AI, and battery. Period. And thus far, those categories are pretty far ahead. Even when other companies catch up, and everyone will be calling for more luxury features for an $80k+ care, they will again improve the car based on those three categories. All of their cars will share the same interior because: 1) it’s cheaper, 2) it’s easier to produce, 3) they care only about those three categories.

 

[MrTuna]

Tesla prices the X in the luxury SUV category based on technology alone. They don’t and won’t ever care about the creature comforts or being the most luxurious. They will never sell a car with these features regardless of the price. They care about their software, AI, and battery. Period. And thus far, those categories are pretty far ahead. Even when other companies catch up, and everyone will be calling for more luxury features for an $80k+ care, they will again improve the car based on those three categories. All of their cars will share the same interior because: 1) it’s cheaper, 2) it’s easier to produce, 3) they care only about those three categories.

the good news is those are the 3 categories I care about too. I would gladly save $200 to turn off heated steering wheels and a lot of the other luxury features.

 

[DoctorVenkman]

Tesla prices the X in the luxury SUV category based on technology alone. They don’t and won’t ever care about the creature comforts or being the most luxurious. They will never sell a car with these features regardless of the price. They care about their software, AI, and battery. Period. And thus far, those categories are pretty far ahead. Even when other companies catch up, and everyone will be calling for more luxury features for an $80k+ care, they will again improve the car based on those three categories. All of their cars will share the same interior because: 1) it’s cheaper, 2) it’s easier to produce, 3) they care only about those three categories.

If this ends up being true, then the S and X will end up being niche enthusiast vehicles. Maybe that's what Tesla wants, I don't know. But once there are other BEVs with 300+ mile range and nicer interiors, the market will move towards those. Most people don't care about battery tech or drivetrains - they care about range, comfort, and cost. If another company can put out a 300+ mile BEV, for a competitive price, with a nicer interior, I think many people will switch over.

 

[FatherTo1]

A nicer interior would be, well, nicer but I find the S interior comfortable enough that I'd rather Tesla devote resources to continued battery advancement, software/AI, charging infrastructure, better QA to reduce SC visits/cost, and better service. There are multiple areas where Tesla can still improve and if interior design was so problematic or a turn-off than you wouldn't have buyers leaving Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Jaguar/LR, and Lexus.

Having owned flagship luxury sedans, I was accustomed to reference surround sound systems, heated and cooled front and rear seats, reclining rear seats (and even foot rests on some long wheelbase models), driver's seat thigh extenders, 4-zone climate control, different ambient lighting, swiveling headlights, headlight washers, mini chill boxes to keep drinks cold, semi-aniline leather, massaging seats, etc., but many of those "luxury" features I learned I could do without when I switched to a Model S.

While I do miss a truly sublime surround sound system, things like Alcantara headliner are "luxury" items that I didn't care about and many of the other amenities are seldom used. Tesla excels at the three things they focus on -- performance, batteries, and software. Sure, Tesla can design a more luxurious interior but then the cars will have to be more expensive or Tesla will have to cut into profit margins. I would rather they continue to refine their manufacturing and expand charging infrastructure to accommodate more Teslas on the road. Lines at Superchargers will continue to be more common as sales increase. Rather than sit in a nicer interior and wait longer, I'd rather they direct resources to reduce the amount of charging time, either through battery tech or more Superchargers.

All that said, Lucid Air is basically a more luxurious Model S. Let's see how the Air fares in the market and its partnership/reliance on the Electrify America network. As Tesla continues to reduce manufacturing costs, then at some point they probably can divert some savings towards better interiors but for now their interiors are more than adequate.

 

[skybluecgreen]

Yeah, Tesla has clearly demonstrated that it's unwilling to waste time and effort on gimmicks. I'll tell that to fart mode, sensing rain drops via vision instead of a $5 sensor, smart summon, console games, christmas light show, etc etc... Clearly they are willing to waste time on a gimmick as long as Elon approves of it.

The fact of the matter is that Tesla is far behind the competition when it comes to interior amenities. They make up for it with amazing battery tech and drivetrains, but the competition will catch up to them on that front eventually. They will need to make their top-line models' interiors more competitive, especially if they are going to be asking $80k+ for them.

Disagree. The 'competition' will fall further behind on 'that front'.

 

[wdolson]

There is no reliable information on what changes, if any, are coming for the X.

If you make statements about coming changes based on a “leak”, then back up your statements with sources and facts.

And what exactly is a “dynamic motor”?

I would think that by definition all motors are "dynamic".

 

[johnking]

Disagree. The 'competition' will fall further behind on 'that front'.

I see your point. Tesla is always gonna be ahead in the 3 angles mentioned (software, performance, battery) as it has had a great headstart. It's gonna be tough for any automaker to be at par. They will need to come up with differential value as they chase Tesla.

I would look at the 'catch-up' in a relative measure to where we are today point of view. In other words, say 2 years from now, if BMW came up with an auto-pilot system as capable as Tesla's version today (steering assist, TACC at par with Tesla) and put it into their X5 or X7 SUVs (electric, hybrid drivetrain) , then for someone like me, I will take that into serious consideration as I would value the luxury aspects to have good ride comfort in addition to the reduction of drive fatigue using an AP like solution.

No doubt Tesla will be far ahead in the game in two years but if battery, performance do not matter to me and the BMW fulfills my needs (AP like software reliability), I might move away from Tesla.

The same could apply for battery range, battery life, performance as each of us would value a different aspect with priority.

Again, this is hypothetical and not sure where the other car makers will be in 2 years and how far they will improve. I am sure they are not silent as well but are putting some serious effort to catch-up.

In as much as I love my Tesla, nothing stops me from looking at other automakers to see if they can fulfill my needs as well. Rivian is one such example their batteries to begin with are not gonna be at par with Tesla but due to their software-first approach, I am hoping their ADAS are better than the traditional automakers.

I know most folks in the forum are passionate about Tesla as a company & I cheer Tesla on to meet greater success. At the end of the day, I perceive it as my problems being solved by a product that Tesla sells. If there is competition and differentiation, then I might opt for another product. Tesla will have to do better to win back my business. (I know I am a small drop in the ocean and if one customer goes doesn't make an impact to Tesla).

 

[gargvarun041]

Again, this is hypothetical and not sure where the other car makers will be in 2 years and how far they will improve. I am sure they are not silent as well but are putting some serious effort to catch-up.

In as much as I love my Tesla, nothing stops me from looking at other automakers to see if they can fulfill my needs as well. Rivian is one such example their batteries to begin with are not gonna be at par with Tesla but due to their software-first approach, I am hoping their ADAS are better than the traditional automakers.

 

[Tiger]

They care about their 1) software, 2) AI, and 3) battery.

Did you intend to leave out 3) Performance (lap time and acceleration) and 4) Safety?

For me, the most important are: range, charging time (miles per quarter), performance, and safety (this includes active safety features such as automatic braking etc. which require software and AI). The UI itself is not important, it would be best if I don't need it, but naturally you need to interface somehow.

Without top-notch performance I wouldn't be buying a Tesla.

 

[TrevTremaine]

I see your point. Tesla is always gonna be ahead in the 3 angles mentioned (software, performance, battery) as it has had a great headstart. It's gonna be tough for any automaker to be at par. They will need to come up with differential value as they chase Tesla.

I would look at the 'catch-up' in a relative measure to where we are today point of view. In other words, say 2 years from now, if BMW came up with an auto-pilot system as capable as Tesla's version today (steering assist, TACC at par with Tesla) and put it into their X5 or X7 SUVs (electric, hybrid drivetrain) , then for someone like me, I will take that into serious consideration as I would value the luxury aspects to have good ride comfort in addition to the reduction of drive fatigue using an AP like solution.

No doubt Tesla will be far ahead in the game in two years but if battery, performance do not matter to me and the BMW fulfills my needs (AP like software reliability), I might move away from Tesla.

The same could apply for battery range, battery life, performance as each of us would value a different aspect with priority.

Again, this is hypothetical and not sure where the other car makers will be in 2 years and how far they will improve. I am sure they are not silent as well but are putting some serious effort to catch-up.

In as much as I love my Tesla, nothing stops me from looking at other automakers to see if they can fulfill my needs as well. Rivian is one such example their batteries to begin with are not gonna be at par with Tesla but due to their software-first approach, I am hoping their ADAS are better than the traditional automakers.

I know most folks in the forum are passionate about Tesla as a company & I cheer Tesla on to meet greater success. At the end of the day, I perceive it as my problems being solved by a product that Tesla sells. If there is competition and differentiation, then I might opt for another product. Tesla will have to do better to win back my business. (I know I am a small drop in the ocean and if one customer goes doesn't make an impact to Tesla).

Certainly, Tesla does have to up it's game in terms of quality and perceived luxury/value. Manufacturers are teaming up with 3rd party software vendors (Blackberry, MobileEye, and others) to come to task with driver interfaces and self-driving capabilities. Although some reviews have stated that other car manufacturers are better with their autonomous driving I think it's slanted by sponsorship more than anything. This may, indeed, change eventually.

I think most people agree that competition would be good for Tesla even if it cuts sales a bit. Personally, I came from BMW not only because of the EV aspect but because the BMWs I've owned were service nightmares. I think this is going to be the linchpin of legacy auto manufacturers as they are weighed down with dealerships and their profit margins based on a service model. I see GM making some strides in that area - and that's the only one I've seen mentioned tackling the issue.

The 20s will be interesting to watch, and while Tesla is ahead in some aspects, it cannot sit still in order to survive all of it.

 

[DoctorVenkman]

Disagree. The 'competition' will fall further behind on 'that front'.

Are you familiar with the concept of diminishing returns? Basically any new technology will have huge improvements in the beginning and then over time the improvements get smaller and smaller as the technology matures. Smart phones are a great example of this. What you're saying would be like saying "no way anyone will catch up to Apple" in 2007. It was true for the first few years, Apple was way ahead of everyone else, but over time Android phones caught up and are basically the same as iPhones now, give or take a few small features.

EVs and Tesla will follow the same pattern. Tesla is currently ahead of its competitors by a few years, and that translates to a huge gap in technology right now. But once EV tech starts to mature that gap will shrink until it's imperceptible to your average consumer. Personally I'd give it about 5 years max until we see Tesla lose its edge in battery, drivetrain and AP technology. If they want to stay a sales leader they'll need to make up ground in other areas, mainly being comfort and cost.

 

[JBT66]

Are the other companies building out these major sized battery manufacturing facilities?
That’s going to take years. Also when Tesla is near doubling battery capacity it will still be several years especially as consumers get even more educated. I agree this advantage won’t last forever but 5 years isn’t really that long.

 

[DanCar]

Theory: Tesla is not eager to hype the third row of Model Y because they don't want Model X sales to tank.

 

[aromaticriddle]

Have you seen this video of the model Y 3rd row? https://youtu.be/sb-Jxr4hVjM

There is no way it will compete with the X 3rd row, where actual adults can actually comfortably sit.

 

[DoctorVenkman]

Are the other companies building out these major sized battery manufacturing facilities?
That’s going to take years. Also when Tesla is near doubling battery capacity it will still be several years especially as consumers get even more educated. I agree this advantage won’t last forever but 5 years isn’t really that long.

Tesla is not the only company building out battery factories and investing in R&D. Not by a long shot. Volkswagen Group alone is investing about $10B per year which is far more than Tesla. They're not going to be vertically integrated like Tesla is, but they are spending a significant amount of money to ensure they have an adequate supply chain and battery technology. Then on top of that you have billions from other companies like Ford, Rivian, etc. to establish supply chains with companies like Panasonic and LG Chem.

Tesla did the hard work of proving EVs can be done. Now that that's been done, it's going to be a lot easier for other companies to catch up. Especially VW Group with its tens of billions of dollars to throw into R&D and supply chain acquisition.

 

[dmurphy]

Theory: Tesla is not eager to hype the third row of Model Y because they don't want Model X sales to tank.

... just like Lexus doesn’t hype the RX to protect the GX, right?

 

[Bigriver]

There is no way it will compete with the X 3rd row, where actual adults can actually comfortably sit.

Do most people buy cars with 3rd rows with plans for adults to sit back there?

 

[dmurphy]

Do most people buy cars with 3rd rows with plans for adults to sit back there?

We do, both with our previous Buicks and now the X.

It’s us + 1 teenager. But we tend to bring our parents with us as well on plenty of trips (sadly my father in law has passed, so it’s 3 of them.) - so 6 seats is perfect for us, all of which need to be adult-capable.

 

[aromaticriddle]

Do most people buy cars with 3rd rows with plans for adults to sit back there?

In our case, we need the flexibility for an adult to sit in the 3rd row. We currently have 3 bulky car seats to fit into our family car and the model X 6 seater is the most appealing to us. On longer trips, an adult needs to ride in the back to keep dishing out the snacks and comfort the kids. Having the gap in-between the 2nd row seats allows for adults and kids to move about without climbing over seats.

Maybe when the kids get older, our needs and routine will change, but a cramped 3rd row doesn't work for us. To be fair, many other car brands have a cramped 3rd row, so I may not be the target demographic.