Model 3 220Wh/mile vs P85 299Wh/mile on same 50 mlie trip

[mdemetri]

Just picked up our Model 3 (Vin 22XX) at MDR today (I love it) and compared the energy usage on the way back home (~50 mile trip on the 405). WOW, what a difference in energy usage. The model 3 used 220Wh/mile while my 2013 P85 used 299Wh/mile. Both are rear wheel drive only. The Model 3 had 18 inch tires vs 21 inch on the Model S, which favors the Model 3. However, the Model 3 tires were brand new while the Model S tires were mid-life, favoring the Model S on energy use. Lower weight for the Model 3 also favors less energy usage.

I am not sure if these differences can explain the major improvement in energy usage, but bottom line I am thoroughly impressed by the improvement in energy usage in the Model 3 over the P85. Well done Elon, well done.

 

[Discoducky]

Sweet, in my 60 I get 280 at best in the winter. Glad that the lighter weight and lower surface area/CoD are showing up in the real world!

 

[Nosken]

Lighter car and better aero is a big part, but I talked to someone that knows the Tesla AC motor tech well, the permanent magnet motor is much more efficient, and costs less to produce. It should prove to have better longevity also.

 

[mdemetri]

Lighter car and better aero is a big part, but I talked to someone that knows the Tesla AC motor tech well, the permanent magnet motor is much more efficient, and costs less to produce. It should prove to have better longevity also.

That is interesting. A more efficient motor would help explain the significant improvement.

The question is, how much better will the range will be with dual motor in Model 3?

 

[David99]

A smaller car just has a advantage. Less air that needs to be pushed out of the way. They probably also made small improvements in various components. Weight make little difference on freeway driving, but each time you accelerate, it does. Lots of stop and go will have a heavy car always use more energy.
I'm not surprised, though. The other EV on the market have similar energy usage as the Model 3.

 

[mdemetri]

A smaller car just has a advantage. Less air that needs to be pushed out of the way. They probably also made small improvements in various components. Weight make little difference on freeway driving, but each time you accelerate, it does. Lots of stop and go will have a heavy car always use more energy.
I'm not surprised, though. The other EV on the market have similar energy usage as the Model 3.

There was some stop and go on the highway, but usually if this is a major factor the energy usage on my P85 would be much higher than 299Wh/mile.

 

[TaoJones]

What was the net elevation change across those 50 miles?

Doh - never mind. A whopping +46 feet. Congrats for the acquisition.

 

[SteveG3]

There was some stop and go on the highway, but usually if this is a major factor the energy usage on my P85 would be much higher than 299Wh/mile.

thanks for sharing what you found. could you estimate what speed you were driving?

 

[Jason S]

thanks for sharing what you found. could you estimate what speed you were driving?

Based on the data so far I'd guess "about 70mph" is the answer.

 

[mdemetri]

There was some stop and go on the 405, but I guess that the average speed was ~55-60mph. Note that stop and go traffic is a detriment to energy usage, so if this was a major factor the energy usage on my P85 would be much higher than 299Wh/mile.

To me, the critical issue is the massive difference between the Model 3 and P85 under the same conditions. We were following each other in the car pool lane, so the drive was essentially the same.

thanks for sharing what you found. could you estimate what speed you were driving?

 

[Krash]

Any chance the 3 was drafting the P85? Which one led? How much distance was there between the two at speed?

 

[Electroman]

Who was following who? The S was behind or the 3? And how close?

 

[mdemetri]

Who was following who? The S was behind or the 3? And how close?

Good point. The P85 was in front, with the Model 3 two cars behind in the car pool lane. However, I don't think there was any significant difference in the distance between the car in front of the Model 3 and the car in front of the P85. It was just routine (busy) highway driving.

 

[Electroman]

Thanks. I am impressed. Getting more than 4 miles per kWh on highway driving is better than Leaf efficiency

 

[SageBrush]

Thanks. I am impressed. Getting more than 4 miles per kWh on highway driving is better than Leaf efficiency

The LEAF has a Cd of 0.31
The Model 3 should beat it handily, even at moderate speeds of ~ 100 kph

 

[bkp_duke]

Just picked up our Model 3 (Vin 22XX) at MDR today (I love it) and compared the energy usage on the way back home (~50 mile trip on the 405). WOW, what a difference in energy usage. The model 3 used 220Wh/mile while my 2013 P85 used 299Wh/mile. Both are rear wheel drive only. The Model 3 had 18 inch tires vs 21 inch on the Model S, which favors the Model 3. However, the Model 3 tires were brand new while the Model S tires were mid-life, favoring the Model S on energy use. Lower weight for the Model 3 also favors less energy usage.

I am not sure if these differences can explain the major improvement in energy usage, but bottom line I am thoroughly impressed by the improvement in energy usage in the Model 3 over the P85. Well done Elon, well done.

The Model 3 is 1500lbs lighter. That's the bulk of your energy savings.

With that said, I'm considering not completing my M3 purchase. I just cannot bear going from 0-60 3.9s to 0-60 5.1s. I like to put my foot into it too much.

 

[mach.89]

Glad this thread was made, I was about to write something up about this. Took delivery of a M3 (for my dad) two days ago in San Diego, and this was one thing I was blown away by that hasn’t been discussed much. We drove about 50 miles that first day, lots of driver swapping, testing acceleration, and many hills. With less than ideal driving techniques, I noticed our Wh/mile was never over 250-270. I couldn’t believe it! Maybe I’m a little more impressed because it’s nearly impossible to get less than 350 Wh/mi in my P100D, even when focusing on driving efficiently. Regardless, this is one impressive automobile in many respects, but its high efficiency needs to be recognized!

 

[Beckler]

Maybe the numbers are "after incentives & gas savings" and that's why they're so low..

 

[Zoomit]

The Model 3 is 1500lbs lighter. That's the bulk of your energy savings.

As has been stated above, weight plays a role in stop-and-go traffic and city driving, but it doesn't play a very significant role in steady-state cruising on the highway.

My driving model for the Model 3 LR predicts 223 Wh/mi at a steady 65 mph (this is approximate and hasn't been validated with empirical data). If I add 1500 lbs in payload, that increases to 247 Wh/mi, only an 11% increase.

The far majority of the difference is due to reduced drag, because it's a smaller car and has better aerodynamics, and a more efficient drivetrain.

 

[SSedan]

Besides all the other good points made.
What are the tires on the Model 3? a narrower tire will have less rolling resistance and likely some aero advantage as well. a "commuter" LRR tire will be more efficient than a "performance" LRR tire that the S is likely wearing. Was the S tire pressure recently checked?

The point about weight not significantly affecting steady cruise is spot on, acceleration it matters but steady cruise is about aero and rolling resistance.