Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]

[Jeremy3292]

Kyle is a serious car enthusiast, and he was obviously excited about how the new M3P drives, similar to how Jason Cammisa was about the M3P. Kyle and his team specialize in EVs on his channels, and they're probably the most knowledgeable car reviewers on YouTube regarding EVs. As for swapping parts and changing rims and tires, that is what lots of enthusiasts do to their cars, to tailor them to meet their desires. When it comes to the M3 Performance, a lot of people change out the wheels and tires, my guess would be at least 10%. Many of us have more than one set of wheels and tires to optimize the car for different situations.

What Kyle was pointing out was that with the new M3P, you can kind of have your cake and eat it too if you're a performance oriented driver. Assuming that you qualify for the tax credit, which the vast majority of Tesla buyers do, the cost of the M3P is less than the LR. Changing the wheels and tires to something more efficient will give the P most of the range of the LR, and you'll still have better acceleration, handling, and braking than the LR. It's kind of a can't lose proposition.

I think you’re missing the point. Kyle is advising buyers to never without a doubt do not buy the LR. A poster on here commented asking why. My point was he is an enthusiast, which is not 99% of buyers, so take what he says with a grain of salt in regards to “don’t buy the LR.” All of that technical stuff is confusing to the layman, which again is 99% of buyers, who just want to buy a car and drive it. Very few people (as you stated yourself) are interested in changing tires much less changing wheels. They don’t understand different battery chemistries or how to precondition a battery or any of these simple things we know. Read reddits or posts on this forum and you’ll find all sorts of hilarious things. A lotttt of people buy cars with little research beforehand also.

For the record, I am buying the P and swapping to a square 19” setup. But I’m not 99% of buyers out there.

 

[P-Lo801]

I was curious about something given the talk of understeer and oversteer. Which of these setups would provide better range assuming both were on summer tires:

265/35r19 squared with 19x9.5 wheels

OR

the oem setup: 235/35r20 20x9 and 275/30r20 20x10

 

[MODEL+]

I was curious about something given the talk of understeer and oversteer. Which of these setups would provide better range assuming both were on summer tires:

265/35r19 squared with 19x9.5 wheels

OR

the oem setup: 235/35r20 20x9 and 275/30r20 20x10

That is a good question, and one I've been wondering myself too.
I would say the staggered setup that Tesla chose does better in range, otherwise I think they would have opted for a wider square setup.

However, this is difficult to measure as most aftermarket wheels will not have the same aero efficiency as the factory wheels.

On another note, the factory wheels weight is a significant improvement from the previous 20" Ubertubines.

According to Unplugged Performance:

Front without covers: 22.70 lbs
Rear without covers: 23.36 lbs

Front with covers: 24.28 lbs
Rear with covers: 24.94 lbs

Wheel specs:
Front are 20x9 +34
Rear are 20x10 +45

Super lightweight compared to the 20x9


Uberturbines which weigh approximately 32 lbs

With that being said, we will still be swapping out to aftermarket setups, cause that's just what we do


-Danny

 

[Sellout]

I was curious about something given the talk of understeer and oversteer. Which of these setups would provide better range assuming both were on summer tires:

265/35r19 squared with 19x9.5 wheels

OR

the oem setup: 235/35r20 20x9 and 275/30r20 20x10

I would expect the OEM setup to provide more range due to lower frontal area resulting in less total drag, but that's probably going to be dependent on the design of the 19" wheels you're buying. I could see a set of 19" EV01+ wheels or similar aero-efficient wheels actually doing better despite the additional frontal area. Will be interesting to see.

Edit: Previous poster beat me to it, but I think we're saying the same thing.

 

[MODEL+]

I would expect the OEM setup to provide more range due to lower frontal area resulting in less total drag, but that's probably going to be dependent on the design of the 19" wheels you're buying. I could see a set of 19" EV01+ wheels or similar aero-efficient wheels actually doing better despite the additional frontal area. Will be interesting to see.

Edit: Previous poster beat me to it, but I think we're saying the same thing.

You are heard and you are seen here. Yes, basically same assessment.


-Danny

 

[GregD60]

I think you’re missing the point. Kyle is advising buyers to never without a doubt do not buy the LR. A poster on here commented asking why. My point was he is an enthusiast, which is not 99% of buyers, so take what he says with a grain of salt in regards to “don’t buy the LR.” All of that technical stuff is confusing to the layman, which again is 99% of buyers, who just want to buy a car and drive it. Very few people (as you stated yourself) are interested in changing tires much less changing wheels. They don’t understand different battery chemistries or how to precondition a battery or any of these simple things we know. Read reddits or posts on this forum and you’ll find all sorts of hilarious things. A lotttt of people buy cars with little research beforehand also.

For the record, I am buying the P and swapping to a square 19” setup. But I’m not 99% of buyers out there.

Well, if Kyle were trying to compete with Consumer Reports, I think you'd have a good point. I think it's pretty obvious that Kyle's target audience is car enthusiasts. Enthusiasts are generally much better informed about cars than the general population, and for them, Kyle's thoughts are appreciated. Like any media, you need to consider where the presenter of the media is coming from. You and I are not 99% of buyers out there, but we might be typical of as much as half of the buyers who are interested in an M3P.

Also, regarding M3P vs. LR, the faster charging speed of the P is something that anyone who uses the Supercharger system would appreciate. I often have friends who ask me for advice regarding cars, and today if one of them wanted a Model 3 and AWD, and they qualified for the tax credit, I'd point them to the P model, and then help them work out a deal to put 18s or 19s on it if they want more range. Even if they're not enthusiasts, the faster charging speed is nice and the car will be worth more for resale than the LR down the road.

 

[CKwik240]

However, this is difficult to measure as most aftermarket wheels will not have the same aero efficiency as the factory wheels.

With the right spacers, I would think one could do some testing with 2 sets of OE rear wheels/tires.

 

[Destiny1701]

Question…does anyone know how much the original V1 20” M3P rims/tire set weighed back in 2019-2021 vs the new M3P warp set?

I have my 2022 LRbooost running this V1 and wondering if there is a substantial weight diff. Ie. Buy a set of 4x9” warp wheels for it should I decide to keep it while buying the new P as well. My version probably can’t handle the 10” rim of the new design anyway. 9 all around sure.

 

[MODEL+]

With the right spacers, I would think one could do some testing with 2 sets of OE rear wheels/tires.

Well if it's factory 20x10 w/ 275 square, then I can just outright tell you the range is gonna be worse than 235/275.


-Danny

 

[jv92red]

Well, if Kyle were trying to compete with Consumer Reports, I think you'd have a good point. I think it's pretty obvious that Kyle's target audience is car enthusiasts. Enthusiasts are generally much better informed about cars than the general population, and for them, Kyle's thoughts are appreciated. Like any media, you need to consider where the presenter of the media is coming from. You and I are not 99% of buyers out there, but we might be typical of as much as half of the buyers who are interested in an M3P.

Also, regarding M3P vs. LR, the faster charging speed of the P is something that anyone who uses the Supercharger system would appreciate. I often have friends who ask me for advice regarding cars, and today if one of them wanted a Model 3 and AWD, and they qualified for the tax credit, I'd point them to the P model, and then help them work out a deal to put 18s or 19s on it if they want more range. Even if they're not enthusiasts, the faster charging speed is nice and the car will be worth more for resale than the LR down the road.

You bring up a point about resale that has me thinking in terms of battery chemistry. What would worry me if I'm in the used car market for either a M3SR or a more expensive M3P, which the way i am, i look at it like what's the worst the previous owner could do to the car. With ICE there's CarFax to confirm oil changes to spot neglect over time/mileage. But for EV's, unless there's an accident reporting, nothing to look at. Owner #1 M3SR with LFP battery that supercharges to 100% every time. Compared to Owner #2 M3P which was a lease and the person supercharged it every time to 100% cause they didn't care cause the car wasn't theirs.
Would this effect resale value for the M3P more so than the M3SR? For me, for a used M3P if i see the CarFax says the first owner was a lease, I'm staying away. But for a non enthusiast, the choice is still the same with the SR vs LR. Am i missing something?

 

[Apprunner]

You bring up a point about resale that has me thinking in terms of battery chemistry. What would worry me if I'm in the used car market for either a M3SR or a more expensive M3P, which the way i am, i look at it like what's the worst the previous owner could do to the car. With ICE there's CarFax to confirm oil changes to spot neglect over time/mileage. But for EV's, unless there's an accident reporting, nothing to look at. Owner #1 M3SR with LFP battery that supercharges to 100% every time. Compared to Owner #2 M3P which was a lease and the person supercharged it every time to 100% cause they didn't care cause the car wasn't theirs.
Would this effect resale value for the M3P more so than the M3SR? For me, for a used M3P if i see the CarFax says the first owner was a lease, I'm staying away. But for a non enthusiast, the choice is still the same with the SR vs LR. Am i missing something?

On Cars.com, I see a Recurrent score that estimates battery health. It may not be super precise but would think it would give directional information on battery health. I think over time, this type of analysis would be expected on all EV used cars.

 

[Nabush]

Talking about wheels tire efficiency, I have an example with huge impact on my Plaid...
- 255/45-19 and 285/40-19 Continental Procontact RX with Tempest without aero covers and 20mm Bonoss spacers all around and lowering links at -6 = 260Wh/mi average on my daily work commute
- T-Sportline TSF 20*10 with 285/35-20 Brigestone RE-71RS 200TW AutoX tire = 325Wh/mi average on the same commute

I find the difference insane as the TSF are more inward the fenders than the Tempest with 20mm spacers, so potentially less aero drag from the edge of tire. So potentially mainly a rolling resistance and weight difference. I'm sure most of it is rolling vs weight.

255 tempest with Conti RX 51.4 Lbs
285 tempest with Conti RX. 58.1 Lbs
285 TSF with RE71. 60.1 Lbs

....

 

[MODEL+]

Talking about wheels tire efficiency, I have an example with huge impact on my Plaid...
- 255/45-19 and 285/40-19 Continental Procontact RX with Tempest without aero covers and 20mm Bonoss spacers all around and lowering links at -6 = 260Wh/mi average on my daily work commute
- T-Sportline TSF 20*10 with 285/35-20 Brigestone RE-71RS 200TW AutoX tire = 325Wh/mi average on the same commute

I find the difference insane as the TSF are more inward the fenders than the Tempest with 20mm spacers, so potentially less aero drag from the edge of tire. So potentially mainly a rolling resistance and weight difference. I'm sure most of it is rolling vs weight.

255 tempest with Conti RX 51.4 Lbs
285 tempest with Conti RX. 58.1 Lbs
285 TSF with RE71. 60.1 Lbs

....

Weight and aero efficiency had marginal impact on your setup. Going from a 400TW tire to a 200TW tire with additional 60mm contact patch up front made the hard impact.


-Danny

 

[CKwik240]

Well if it's factory 20x10 w/ 275 square, then I can just outright tell you the range is gonna be worse than 235/275.


-Danny

I don't think that's in doubt. But there is a question if how much difference it makes with the covers on a 275 wide square set up.

 

[cptnslo]

Talking about wheels tire efficiency, I have an example with huge impact on my Plaid...
- 255/45-19 and 285/40-19 Continental Procontact RX with Tempest without aero covers and 20mm Bonoss spacers all around and lowering links at -6 = 260Wh/mi average on my daily work commute
- T-Sportline TSF 20*10 with 285/35-20 Brigestone RE-71RS 200TW AutoX tire = 325Wh/mi average on the same commute

I find the difference insane as the TSF are more inward the fenders than the Tempest with 20mm spacers, so potentially less aero drag from the edge of tire. So potentially mainly a rolling resistance and weight difference. I'm sure most of it is rolling vs weight.

255 tempest with Conti RX 51.4 Lbs
285 tempest with Conti RX. 58.1 Lbs
285 TSF with RE71. 60.1 Lbs

....

Please tell me you have photos of the oem 19s with no covers and the spacers and links. That is an identical setup to what I have but no links yet and have been wanting to see a photo!

 

[Gasaraki]

You bring up a point about resale that has me thinking in terms of battery chemistry. What would worry me if I'm in the used car market for either a M3SR or a more expensive M3P, which the way i am, i look at it like what's the worst the previous owner could do to the car. With ICE there's CarFax to confirm oil changes to spot neglect over time/mileage. But for EV's, unless there's an accident reporting, nothing to look at. Owner #1 M3SR with LFP battery that supercharges to 100% every time. Compared to Owner #2 M3P which was a lease and the person supercharged it every time to 100% cause they didn't care cause the car wasn't theirs.
Would this effect resale value for the M3P more so than the M3SR? For me, for a used M3P if i see the CarFax says the first owner was a lease, I'm staying away. But for a non enthusiast, the choice is still the same with the SR vs LR. Am i missing something?

Just ask for a Recurrent report and if they didn't do that, buy from someone who has done that.

 

[P-Lo801]

That is a good question, and one I've been wondering myself too.
I would say the staggered setup that Tesla chose does better in range, otherwise I think they would have opted for a wider square setup.

However, this is difficult to measure as most aftermarket wheels will not have the same aero efficiency as the factory wheels.

On another note, the factory wheels weight is a significant improvement from the previous 20" Ubertubines.

According to Unplugged Performance:


With that being said, we will still be swapping out to aftermarket setups, cause that's just what we do


-Danny

Fair point about the wheel design being a big factor. I'm waiting on the afternarket vendors to develop replicas of the oem 20s in 18s and 19s sizes and having different options for the aero inserts like carbon fiber or different colors.

That said, I'm also considering the following setup that I see available through unplugged's site:

235/40/19 19x9 +33
265/35/19 19x9.5 +35

 

[golfcart]

I filled in some data from my 21 full stock run at Cecil County drag strip. This was a very strong [record?] run.

	Old P3D	2024 P3D	2021 MSLR
0-60 (no rollout)		2.99
1/8 mi	7.25	7.06
1000ft	9.45	9.2
1/4 mi	[email protected]	11.03
60-130		9.74
0-130		12.73

That's moving for a stock vehicle. I never got lower than 11.5x in my 2020. The stock 2024 from the thread still has you beat but not by much. Then again, taking the known record on stock 20s and comparing it to one random run my not be representative. Typical times I have seen are more like 11.6x@116x and 0-60 in 3.3. Will be interesting to see as more data comes out on the new one.

 

[phantasms]

That's moving for a stock vehicle. I never got lower than 11.5x in my 2020. The stock 2024 from the thread still has you beat but not by much. Then again, taking the known record on stock 20s and comparing it to one random run my not be representative. Typical times I have seen are more like 11.6x@116x and 0-60 in 3.3. Will be interesting to see as more data comes out on the new one.

Really I should just order one now to see how fast I can put it down the strip, in the name of science!

I have no idea if I'll qualify for the tax credit or not this year but I can't bring myself to order that stealth grey. My requirements are white interior and anything but SG. Alas, I sit on my hands. Probably as Elon squirts more gasoline in the Tesla/X dumpster fire the prices will come down a touch more.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I can say without a doubt tire compound matters the most for efficiency below 70 mph. I have done extensive testing on this with different size diameter and width wheels/tires. Changing dimensions does make a difference. However, switching to the Hankook iON EVO AS tires alone made the biggest difference.

I have tested a RWD with 18" Aeros on my 25 mile test loop and it did 191 wh/mi. However, I was able to do 194 wh/mi with my 2022 Model 3 Performance on the same loop with the same 59.9 mph GPS measured average speed with 235/35/20 Hankook iON EVO AS tires.

To be able to match RWD 18" Aero efficiency with 20" Aero wheels on a Model 3 Performance is game changing. With a new 82.1 kWh(79 kWh usable) battery I am looking at 400+ miles of range at 60 mph. Even at 70+ mph I could achieve about 340 miles of range. I even did 299 miles on non Aero 18" wheels and summer tires on my Model 3 Performance once.

Switching tires is critical for someone who lives in a colder snowy climate and needs to go on 330+ mile commutes and still wants some wheels and tires for the track a few times a month. The stock wheels and tires will be my track setup. The All season tires will be my long commute tires.