Model 3 pricing and competition

[seattlite2004]

They'd need a premium tech package, at least. I'm not sure how their options are structured these days.

They are in the mid 30k range retail and loaded (animal leather, heated steering, some with HUD, and all with keyless entry with FOBs). When I was looking, I came very close to getting a Honda Carity Plug-in Touring....and it was just under 37K retail...but outside of Teslas no one really pays retail for these types of vehicles. One dealer was offering almost 20% off 2018 Bolt's that were enroute to the dealership...no haggling needed. So if one does a little shopping..there are certainly deals to be had on electrified vehicles.

 

[banned-66611]

All the small differences add up, so it's not just about range. However, that said, for me the most important deciding factors would be:

• performance, Tesla has better performance, probably also range
  
• looks and design, Tesla is likely more sexy
• roominess, Tesla is likely roomier both cabin and cargo, but Hyundai easier access to trunk
  
• better ground clearance, Hyundai suv-like design probably wins here
  
• serviceability, Hyundai is likely easier to service than a Tesla
• getting updates to the car, Tesla probably wins here (in Elon time though)
  
• range and charging, I would look into my region whether 150kw chargers are actually available; for example here in Estonia (we don't have any superchargers), many regions have lots of EV taxis and all chademo 50kw charging stations are occupied by taxis so you'll wait so long that effective charging rate is probably 22kw.

Being 6.3' with kids, currently my choice is a loaded Skoda Superb Combi awd. Will get an MX as soon as it has usable range for our region, and a service center wouldn't hurt either.

The M3 SR won't have better range, I guarantee that. As I said Hyundai EVs are efficient and even with the crossover shape a 25% bigger battery isn't going to result in lower range.

The Kona is smaller, although the current Leaf is roomier and the new one probably will be too. For me I prefer taller cars - the model S is rather small and low.

Charging is an issue but probably less so with a 300 mile realistic range. One other thing for me, the Leaf, Kona and Niro all have the charge port at the front which is best.

 

[Saghost]

The M3 SR won't have better range, I guarantee that. As I said Hyundai EVs are efficient and even with the crossover shape a 25% bigger battery isn't going to result in lower range.

The Kona is smaller, although the current Leaf is roomier and the new one probably will be too. For me I prefer taller cars - the model S is rather small and low.

Charging is an issue but probably less so with a 300 mile realistic range. One other thing for me, the Leaf, Kona and Niro all have the charge port at the front which is best.

My car without released test data is better than your car without released test data?

I feel like this discussion might be premature...

 

[chronopc]

Does anyone know how well the Bolt is selling? In the US, it's definitely the closest competitor to the base Model 3.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Does anyone know how well the Bolt is selling? In the US, it's definitely the closest competitor to the base Model 3.

Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard
*sad trombone*

P.S. There are suggestions that GM is slow-walking to push the 200K mark in Q1 2019. But I don't know if dealership inventories match that story.

 

[diamond.g]

Does anyone know how well the Bolt is selling? In the US, it's definitely the closest competitor to the base Model 3.

There are more Model 3's in the US than there are Bolts, per InsideEV's

 

[JeffK]

There are more Model 3's in the US than there are Bolts, per InsideEV's

It's likely Tesla will manufacture more Model 3s in July than GM will produce Bolts for the entire year.

 

[seattlite2004]

It's likely Tesla will manufacture more Model 3s in July than GM will produce Bolts for the entire year.

Maybe because the Bolt losses money for GM/Chevy? Why would they want to make more if they can't make any profits on the vehicle?

 

[chronopc]

Maybe because the Bolt losses money for GM/Chevy? Why would they want to make more if they can't make any profits on the vehicle?

That's pretty sad that the Bolt loses money for Chevy. I guess their battery cost is significantly higher than Tesla's. I guess if other companies want to compete with the Model 3 they will also need to price their vehicle at a lost too.

 

[banned-66611]

My car without released test data is better than your car without released test data?

I feel like this discussion might be premature...

What test data are you referring to? We have range data for the M3 SR and Niro, we have battery specs, we have vehicle dimensions and actual examples to sit in...

I know that the M3 SR isn't out yet, but the Kona is and it's been reviewed extensively. Comparison with the M3 LR is easily possible and the SR is very similar except for the much smaller battery.

 

[seattlite2004]

That's pretty sad that the Bolt loses money for Chevy. I guess their battery cost is significantly higher than Tesla's.

It's from LG Chem... along with a significant amount of the electronics in the car.

 

[Saghost]

What test data are you referring to? We have range data for the M3 SR and Niro, we have battery specs, we have vehicle dimensions and actual examples to sit in...

I know that the M3 SR isn't out yet, but the Kona is and it's been reviewed extensively. Comparison with the M3 LR is easily possible and the SR is very similar except for the much smaller battery.

Is it?

I just went back to fuel economy, and I still don't see the Niro EV listed by the EPA. The 3SR isn't, either.

It sounds like you're proposing to the results of one car on one test cycle with the results of the wrong model of another case on a different test cycle and fix it with assumed ratios.

You may get good results, if your assumptions are right - or you may not.

 

[JeffK]

That's pretty sad that the Bolt loses money for Chevy. I guess their battery cost is significantly higher than Tesla's. I guess if other companies want to compete with the Model 3 they will also need to price their vehicle at a lost too.

The battery cost of the Bolt is actually pretty low especially if you can buy a replacement 60 kWh Bolt battery for a little over $10K and the car on the same manufacturing line the Sonic retails for $15K

If they're losing money on the Bolt, then it's simply because they aren't producing at volume.

 

[EVMeister]

There are quite a lot of 100kW CCS chargers in Europe (actually most are 150kW) and more going in all the time. The networks are competitive with Tesla's.

Not here in the UK they're not. And I'm not speculating here, I'm speaking from experience as an EV owner. Your options for long-distance EV travel currently rely on going to a motorway service station and hoping that the 1 - 2 plugs available there are free and in working order. With Tesla you not only have the option of using Type 2 chargers if you need to (possibly CCS in the future, CHAdeMO if you have adaptor), you have huge peace of mind knowing you have all of the Superchargers to choose from as well. And they don't tend to just come with 1 or 2 in one location, there are several. And you always know on the car itself whether they're occupied and working before they arrive. So no, it is not an equivalent experience at all.

 

[insaneoctane]

Announced BEV products and plans are plentiful in the marketplace today... It's quite extraordinary. Reality is a fickle thing though. It might be fun to speculate about these future products, but I suggest details are quite lacking. My money is (literally) on Tesla for the next few years for sure. Once there exists another charging network we can have this discussion again. I think Tesla has really maximized the US federal tax incentives to help position themselves to produce BEVs in an economical and profitable way. They appear to be getting their last incentives as they approach delivering millions of vehicles at 25%+ Gross Margins. Does Nissan or GM seem to be in that boat?

 

[ℬête Noire]

There are quite a lot of 100kW CCS chargers in Europe (actually most are 150kW) and more going in all the time.

Citation? Any map I've seen there are currently maybe a half dozen total 150kW CCS stations in all of Europe (there's also a couple esoteric ones rated higher than that).

 

[electracity]

Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard
*sad trombone*

P.S. There are suggestions that GM is slow-walking to push the 200K mark in Q1 2019. But I don't know if dealership inventories match that story.

GM is executing their strategy, which does not involve selling as many Bolts as possible. For existing auto makers the strategy is like bicycle racing. It's not time yet to break from the pack and sprint.

 

[ℬête Noire]

GM is executing their strategy, which does not involve selling as many Bolts as possible. For existing auto makers the strategy is like bicycle racing. It's not time yet to break from the pack and sprint.

Only they had announced just earlier this year that they were boosting their Bolt production numbers.

Drafting only works if you're pedaling fast enough to stay with the lead pack. Otherwise you're just racing against other losers.

 

[banned-66611]

It's from LG Chem... along with a significant amount of the electronics in the car.

LG seems to be the key to this. They have found a way to build batteries at a significantly lower €/kWh cost than Panasonic/Tesla, so even at lower volume cars using those batteries are beating the M3 on range/price.

 

[ℬête Noire]

LG seems to be the key to this. They have found a way to build batteries at a significantly lower €/kWh cost than Panasonic/Tesla, so even at lower volume cars using those batteries are beating the M3 on range/price.

First the total BS CCS 150kW charger claim, then the bogus $10K Bolt battery claim (it's actually over $15,000 for the replacement part), and now this opposite world nonsense? Come on.