Model S P85D lower and lower range for 3 - years - WARRANTY ENDING SOON - what to do?

[BrokerDon]

That’s basically what I average as well with staggered 20s. I run 46psi to help with the rear tire wear.

What year & model Model S do you have?

Does it have Smart Air Suspension ?

 

[Doanster1]

What year & model Model S do you have?

Does it have Smart Air Suspension ?

Dec’14 P85D with the + SAS. MCU1 with LTE upgrade.

 

[P85D-low-range]

Dec’14 P85D with the + SAS. MCU1 with LTE upgrade.

Same exact here.

 

[P85D-low-range]

Updates:

After providing all the data to the techs showing I can only use about 42-48 kWh from 90% down to 20%, and it takes 61-63 kWh of charge to get back to the same initial battery charge level, and after them telling me they are concerned by this problem, and will be escalating in engineering, they suddenly closed out the ticket AGAIN and told me to come get the car, without follow-up or answers as previously promised.

I called Tesla to say I want a follow-up, as promised, and they called me back just now. Here is what they said:

Despite other techs saying (in writing) that they do see problems with my battery pack and BMS, and are having meetings to review, and will call me back, they did not call me back, other than today to say there is NO WARRANTY coverage.

Not sure whey they said there were problems and decided to keep the car for over a month then?

They said there were problems, they were researching, and would get back to me.
They do not follow up and do what they said.

They are now saying it's not covered, there is no 8-year battery warranty, and my reduced range is not covered. When I said it's an informational error, and BMS error, they said too bad - come get the car and we're going to charge you storage fees if you don't get the car immediately.

I am immensely frustrated by them saying they will research and follow-up, not doing it, and now saying I have no warranty coverage.

I understand there isn't a specific degradation/range clause in my warranty - but there was an 8 year battery warranty, and the battery is showing issues, and i'm showing evidence of that. Furthermore, I expect them to follow-up when they say the will, not look for an escape clause to say it's not under warranty - especially after admitting there are issues.

What to do? How can I escalate, other than legally and through social media?

 

[henderrj]

Updates:

After providing all the data to the techs showing I can only use about 42-48 kWh from 90% down to 20%, and it takes 61-63 kWh of charge to get back to the same initial battery charge level, and after them telling me they are concerned by this problem, and will be escalating in engineering, they suddenly closed out the ticket AGAIN and told me to come get the car, without follow-up or answers as previously promised.

I called Tesla to say I want a follow-up, as promised, and they called me back just now. Here is what they said:

Despite other techs saying (in writing) that they do see problems with my battery pack and BMS, and are having meetings to review, and will call me back, they did not call me back, other than today to say there is NO WARRANTY coverage.

Not sure whey they said there were problems and decided to keep the car for over a month then?

They said there were problems, they were researching, and would get back to me.
They do not follow up and do what they said.

They are now saying it's not covered, there is no 8-year battery warranty, and my reduced range is not covered. When I said it's an informational error, and BMS error, they said too bad - come get the car and we're going to charge you storage fees if you don't get the car immediately.

I am immensely frustrated by them saying they will research and follow-up, not doing it, and now saying I have no warranty coverage.

I understand there isn't a specific degradation/range clause in my warranty - but there was an 8 year battery warranty, and the battery is showing issues, and i'm showing evidence of that. Furthermore, I expect them to follow-up when they say the will, not look for an escape clause to say it's not under warranty - especially after admitting there are issues.

What to do? How can I escalate, other than legally and through social media?

Corporate does not care. They will fight you all the way. It is a reflection of Elon Musk's defective emotional state. His response to tons of people suing Tesla was not to ask why - but to hire a cadre of out for blood attorneys and legal staff.

The key to dealing with Tesla corporate is to expect nothing, because you won't get anything.

 

[Rocky_H]

other than today to say there is NO WARRANTY coverage.

They are now saying it's not covered, there is no 8-year battery warranty, and my reduced range is not covered. [...] and now saying I have no warranty coverage.

Hold on, let's clear this up. You DO have warranty coverage--from complete failure. Reduced range is not covered. That is what the warranty terms are for all of the older cars before that 70% capacity change came along. Degradation is specifically excluded from any warranty coverage. So don't misrepresent that. They are saying it seems to look funny but haven't determined if it actually has a failure or not. If it does, that's covered. If it doesn't, then that's not covered. And they are trying to convey that you, that, "I don't think I have the range I should." is not by itself a warranty covered thing.

But that's a separate issue from this really bad behavior they have of promising to investigate and contact you and not doing it and just blatantly closing out support tickets. I've seen a lot of reports of that here in the forum recently, which kind of comes down to terrible company structure. They seem to have someone who is just going through online tickets and thinks their full time job is simply to close out as many of them as they can as fast as they can, without really finding out if that's OK or not, or if it's still being worked on or not. And the service technicians who are working on it don't seem to be authorized or empowered to have any say in that part of it. So things keep going back and forth with this conflicting messaging to customers.

 

[ucmndd]

What to do? How can I escalate, other than legally and through social media?

Predictable result is predictable.

You are fighting an unwindable fight, looking for compensation under warranty terms that don't exist. They are not going to give you a new battery unless yours fails. Low range is not failure. Full stop. We've been telling you this for going on 8 months now.

Your only real recourse remaining is to file for arbitration as specified under the terms of your purchase agreement. However you should expect a similar outcome there.

 

[Electric700]

The problem occurred while under warranty and was reported. Tesla also had the car when the warranty coverage expired. To me, you reported this on time, and this should be a covered warranty event. If the technicians are saying that something is wrong, especially with the unexplained loss of 10 - 20 kW (e.g. repeatable 50 kW to charge but only 30 kW used to drive immediately after charging), can you ask for a battery repair / different refurbished battery under the terms of the warranty? You should mention all of this, and the history. I think your battery should be fully analyzed further by Tesla after they replace it, because something strange really does seem to be going on.

 

[aerodyne]

Also noteworthy: On TeslaFi, of of the all P85D in their database with similar mileage (68,000 - 70,000 mi), ALL 24 of the other vehicles have greater range than mine, by an average of 16 miles. Mine is in last place among the entire fleet.

In real world, my 219 mile stated range does not equate to more than 140 miles, so my range not only the worst out of 25 similar vehicles w/ similar year and mileage, but is probably worse by an even larger margin than TeslaFi is capturing.

Data shows more significant degradation than ALL other similar vehicles in the fleet.

Sigh...

There is...
No...
Warranty...
For...
Degradation!

(On your 2015)

Now if you have error messages and warnings that the car will or does shut down, that is something that should be covered.

I would have pulled the car from Service and charged it every day to 90%, hoping it failed before the warranty expired.

 

[BrokerDon]

Also noteworthy: On TeslaFi, of of the all P85D in their database with similar mileage (68,000 - 70,000 mi), ALL 24 of the other vehicles have greater range than mine, by an average of 16 miles. Mine is in last place among the entire fleet.

In real world, my 219 mile stated range does not equate to more than 140 miles, so my range not only the worst out of 25 similar vehicles w/ similar year and mileage, but is probably worse by an even larger margin than TeslaFi is capturing.

Data shows more significant degradation than ALL other similar vehicles in the fleet.

For reference, here's our 2015 P85DL's 234 mile Expected Range from Recurrent | Used Electric Car Reports & Insights at 72,000 miles, how this compares to other P85D's, and how it is charged. SoCal car with staggered 21" Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 tires on Arachnid rims.

Typically we charge daily to 80% unless we've got a road trip then we go up to 90%. Maximum ACTUAL miles we've driven is 200 miles between Page AZ Supercharger (charged to 100%) and Blanding Supercharger (arrived with ~ 10%) in mild / no winds with Range Mode on and driving very conservatively.

However typically we recharge after driving 150 to 170 ACTUAL miles so our SoC is > 20%... and recharge just enough to get to home or our next Supercharger location. We charge ~ 85% at home using a Tesla Gen 2 Wall Connector at 64A on a 100A / 240V breaker.

Sorry your P85D range is SO low. Hope ours stays where it is until we buy a new Tesla Model S. Hopefully this happens soon since Tesla is discounting all their Model S Inventory now which typically indicates a model refresh. Hoping for HW 4.0 but not holding my breath.

 

[Doanster1]

Good info/data @BrokerDon. Like I said in my previous response, I’m only getting ~125miles, but that’s over the course of an entire week of short trips and cold batteries. Vampire drain ate up 31 rated miles and the delta between consumed rated vs actual miles driven was another 30miles (155 rated vs 125 actual). With cold temps and short trips, I don’t think that’s horrible. I don’t have a need to road trip any time soon, but hope that warmer weather will improve/close the gap. Car charges fine. It’s consumption that’s poor right now.
Def feel for you @P85D-low-range in terms of the interactions with your SC. Is low your mileage similar to mine, ie over the course of a week or is it that low when going on extended drives/road trips?

 

[aerodyne]

Also noteworthy: On TeslaFi, of of the all P85D in their database with similar mileage (68,000 - 70,000 mi), ALL 24 of the other vehicles have greater range than mine, by an average of 16 miles. Mine is in last place among the entire fleet.

In real world, my 219 mile stated range does not equate to more than 140 miles, so my range not only the worst out of 25 similar vehicles w/ similar year and mileage, but is probably worse by an even larger margin than TeslaFi is capturing.

Data shows more significant degradation than ALL other similar vehicles in the fleet.

Too late to be of use, but if you had SMT, or other CANbus reading device, you could see EXACTLY the pack capacity and what each HV pack module and string was doing, and hopefully use that to get a goodwill replacement or enable an early failure under warranty.

 

[BrokerDon]

Too late to be of use, but if you had SMT, or other CANbus reading device, you could see EXACTLY the pack capacity and what each HV pack module and string was doing, and hopefully use that to get a goodwill replacement or enable an early failure under warranty.

What CANbus reading device and app(s) do you recommend? I have 4 months remaining on my 8-year battery and Tesla Extended warranties and want to make sure everything is working correctly before my warranties expire.

Thanks!

 

[aerodyne]

What CANbus reading device and app(s) do you recommend? I have 4 months remaining on my 8-year battery and Tesla Extended warranties and want to make sure everything is working correctly before my warranties expire.

Thanks!

Highly recommend Scan My Tesla. You need a adapter cable and a reader. Full thread here on TMC.

Now that the energy graph, service screen and battery test is available (At least in the refresh cars) I don't see the use for it anymore, but it was invaluable in confirming I had a very healthy 7 yo pack with 77 KwH nominal.

Below is an image of the pack module and string data:

 

[BrokerDon]

Highly recommend Scan My Tesla. You need a adapter cable and a reader. Full thread here on TMC.

Now that the energy graph, service screen and battery test is available (At least in the refresh cars) I don't see the use for it anymore, but it was invaluable in confirming I had a very healthy 7 yo pack with 77 KwH nominal.

Below is an image of the pack module and string data:

Thanks! I really appreciate your advice!

Would this adapter cable work in my 2015 MS P85DL with MCU 2.0 & 4G LTE upgrades? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KQK9SF7?tag=tmc064-20

What ODBII reader would you recommend with my iPhone 13 Pro Max?

Please provide a URL to the "Full thread here on TMC". I searched for it but couldn't find one... Just multiple threads including Scan My Tesla references.

 

[aerodyne]

Thanks! I really appreciate your advice!

Would this adapter cable work in my 2015 MS P85DL with MCU 2.0 & 4G LTE upgrades? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KQK9SF7?tag=tmc064-20

What ODBII reader would you recommend with my iPhone 13 Pro Max?

Please provide a URL to the "Full thread here on TMC". I searched for it but couldn't find one... Just multiple threads including Scan My Tesla references.

Sorry, I'm a android user.

Link to TMC thread shortly.... actually link to SMT website is better. I used the obd LX and MX adapter.

scan my tesla - Adapters

To connect Scan My Tesla, you need 2 things:

www.scanmytesla.com

 

[Doanster1]

The iOS version of SMT doesn’t get very good reviews. They started and built out the Android app, but are not putting as much into iOS so far. Maybe a cheap Fire tablet just for SMT use is in my future.

 

[aerodyne]

The iOS version of SMT doesn’t get very good reviews. They started and built out the Android app, but are not putting as much into iOS so far. Maybe a cheap Fire tablet just for SMT use is in my future.

I heard that as well...

You could just get a old chowdered up Android without a cell connection, and stick it in you visor like I did...

 

[P85D-low-range]

Too late to be of use, but if you had SMT, or other CANbus reading device, you could see EXACTLY the pack capacity and what each HV pack module and string was doing, and hopefully use that to get a goodwill replacement or enable an early failure under warranty.

They still have my car, and I got SMT and the adaptor. What should I look for with pack capacity? First time user of the app.

 

[P85D-low-range]

End result of this round with Tesla:

They told me they'd get back to me on the data I emailed them after researching with their tech team - but they never did, completely ignoring it instead. I spent hours compiling the data from pictures of my cars dashboard from every trip and sent it to them. It showed the kwh in and out was even further off than I thought, and my car's real world usable amount of battery is between 48-59 kwH. Not to mention the constant BMS issues that tesla was telling me they see as a problem on my car - during even this visit. I reminded them, and they told me they want to look the data I provided, and will get back to me tomorrow. This happened no less than 3 times - no feedback, still.

So then I went in person to talk to them, they wouldn't let me talk to anyone technical. But they told me (again) they promise get back to me tomorrow.

Then they didn't get back to me, closed my ticket suddenly and told me my car was ready - I reminded them that they hadn't gotten back to me on the very issue I brought it there for, and it's not fixed, or even researched. They said they don't need to research it because my car is old, and the battery is supposed to be bad and relay bad info - and their computers can't even read any data at all from my battery - because it's so old (I have this documented, btw), and they don't have warranties on battery range on my year car - I told them it's not about range - it's about having a repeated error and the data showing it - and the trip and usage data being way off from the energy going back into the car to cover those few miles. This is in addition to their techs telling me I have a problem with the battery pack that they see - so it's clearly not only a range issue.

The person named "Joe" said he hasn't heard of any of the other tech's names that I talked to, and implied they don't exist and I was making up the idea that they'd do more research - then started bullying me on the phone - and said they'd start collecting storage fees in 2 days - then hung up on me, IMMEDIATELY added $351 in fake storage fees (didn't even wait 5 minutes, let alone 2 days), and put another another $92.50 diagnosis fee, then told me to come get my key and that my account is going to collections.

When I went in person, the service advisor told me they ARE STILL RESEARCHING IT (clearly not true - just them playing good cop bad cop in a way so repeated it feels like unofficial company policy).

Then he proceeds to tell me their location is under pressure from someone higher up at Tesla corporate to get my car out of there because someone noticed it has been located there for a while and they're not done with it. He said I need to get it out of there, but they're still researching it, and PROMISED they'd still get back to me on the technical research tomorrow (Friday) - which of course they didn't.

He got rid of the fake charges, and told me that because he removed the newly added fake charges (I have screenshots w/ timestamps), I now need to take my key and take my car away to repay them for removing the drummed up charges. I said they can't use bullying and the threat of false charges to make me cancel my appointment without it being completed - he assured me that my warranty coverage still applies and because I reported all of this, they will continue to look at it.

Yeah right.

They still have my car, and I told them I'll only get it AFTER they do what they promised - and have someone on the technical team get back to me on the supposed research they're doing.
He told me even though the ticket is closed, I can still message them on the ticket.

Over the weekend, that ability was taken away, as they hard closed the ticket somehow and I can't respond to them.
So I am immediately opening a new ticket to go to a different service center, and going to use the scan my tesla app.

I used to like this company and product a lot.
It seems they go out of their way to tell false promises about fixes, and have a combination of nice polite people and very rude people telling the customer completely conflicting things, as a matter of policy and customer bullying.