Model S to the Nürburgring Next Week!

[Fossil Fool]

Better than launching a Roadster to the stars! Even if it can't match the Porsche it's still cool. People who will buy a Porsche will do so and Tesla people will not be lining up for a Porsche. Still, competition breeds innovation. With VW moving into the market (way below the M3), Tesla needs the positive press. Excuse me while I go take a nap on Interstate-10.

 

[acoste]

The BMW M5 (F90) had the 4 door record at Laguna Seca with a time of 1:39.81:

Laguna Seca (post 1988) lap times - FastestLaps.com

The M5’s best time at Nürburgring was 7:38.92:

BMW M5 F90 laptimes, specs, performance data - FastestLaps.com

So S faster than M5 on Laguna Seca.

M5 faster than Taycan on Nürburgring.

Referring to my 3rd grade math rules, it seems very likely the S can be faster than M5 on Nürburgring and therefore faster than Taycan.

So the S is very much in the game here.

Cue all the doubters...

Nurburgring is a faster track, and Porsche has more advantage at higher speeds.

 

[acoste]

Model 3’s record was 1:42 stock and 1:37 mod (slicks). If Model S is faster I will definitely be more confident for the ring test.

Is the 1:42 with a stock car?

Tesla Model 3 Performance shatters all-time EV lap record at Laguna Seca

"Then Rogers did a 1:41.2 lap in his Model 3 Performance to claim the record again — however, the car had an aftermarket suspension."

Tesla Model S breaks Laguna Seca lap records, says Elon Musk - Electrek

 

[MP3Mike]

Tesla Model S on Nurburgring to Set Lap Time

So it appears Tesla might have secured a slot to get an official time on 9/21.

We've also heard that a Model S, likely the one with the wicker and the Cup 2 Rs, was on the track already and was absolutely flying, pulling away from other cars, but broke halfway through a lap.

These updates have all transpired in the last 24 hours, which makes us think there's a chance that Elon tweeted about the Model S being on the 'Ring, then his team had to figure out how to make it happen.

Of course take the article with a grain of salt, as they don't have all of their facts straight. The car they pictured only had Cup 2 tires, not Cup 2 Rs. (The Cup2 Rs were reported to be on a different non-Raven Californian Model S seen in the area.)

I do wonder what broke, or if that is more FUD.

 

[MP3Mike]

More information from another post:

According to this German car magazine Tesla brought 2 Model S to the Nurburgring, where the team will camp out for three weeks. The cars are being charged with a generator. They have three dedicated spots on three different days, where they have the track to themselves: 18, 21 and 25 September. The one on the 21st is for two straight hours.

Model S-Attacke auf den Taycan-Rekord: Tesla entert die Nordschleife

 

[billkatz]

What is the Model S Laguna lap time? I couldn't find it in the thread.

Call me a curmudgeon, but I preferred the pre-1988 1.9 mile version of Laguna - it was much more of a contrast to Sears Point, and the high speed turns 2 & 3 were a challenge (I used to race a Formula Ford). My best race there was the last one before they changed the track.

 

[PhantomX]

Tesla Model S on Nurburgring to Set Lap Time

So it appears Tesla might have secured a slot to get an official time on 9/21.



Of course take the article with a grain of salt, as they don't have all of their facts straight. The car they pictured only had Cup 2 tires, not Cup 2 Rs. (The Cup2 Rs were reported to be on a different non-Raven Californian Model S seen in the area.)

I do wonder what broke, or if that is more FUD.

Thanks for the update. Good to hear they have slots available now. Now I wonder if they will sell the configuration they are going to run on the Ring.

 

[CarlK]

What is the Model S Laguna lap time? I couldn't find it in the thread.

Call me a curmudgeon, but I preferred the pre-1988 1.9 mile version of Laguna - it was much more of a contrast to Sears Point, and the high speed turns 2 & 3 were a challenge (I used to race a Formula Ford). My best race there was the last one before they changed the track.

I don't think it's revealed yet. Elon's tweet says video tomorrow. I guess we will know then. For reference the best 4dr sedan record at Laguna is from BMW M5 F90 which also posted a Nurburgring time 7:38. Can't do direct translation of course but the S is not slow.

 

[PhantomX]

I get that. What I don't understand is why you think Tesla can’t put those same brakes on a Raven, charge $10k more for a Track Edition, and still beat the time. If sold as a Track Edition, it would still be a production car.

Hell, they could charge $50k more and still come in well under a top spec Taycan.

Not sure it can be done that cheaply though. Ceramic brake is very expensive, usually an option that cost close to $10K when compared to standard brake. Even replacement discs are close to $10K.

Tires are likely going to be a couple thousands if using Pilot Sport 4S around the size that Taycan uses, and most likely they will want a set of light weight wheels as well. So probably a $5k to $6K combo.

Lastly, the body and chassis likely need to be updated to accommodate the wider tires, bigger wheels/brake combo, and improved suspension. Not sure $50K will be enough to cover the cost incurred and still be profitable.

 

[MountainPass]

*sigh* Looks like we are going back to Laguna Seca soon!

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Of course take the article with a grain of salt, as they don't have all of their facts straight.

That in itself is a good example of how the 'Chinese whispers' are going. i.e. badly.

 

[wenkan]

*sigh* Looks like we are going back to Laguna Seca soon!

I don't think they can break the 1:37.5 mod record you have set. But yeah I know you can go faster!

 

[Simon21]

What is the Model S Laguna lap time? I couldn't find it in the thread.

Call me a curmudgeon, but I preferred the pre-1988 1.9 mile version of Laguna - it was much more of a contrast to Sears Point, and the high speed turns 2 & 3 were a challenge (I used to race a Formula Ford). My best race there was the last one before they changed the track.

You have a tesla now? What are your thoughts on the Tesla VS other cars in terms of performance?

 

[Realist]

I don't think it's revealed yet. Elon's tweet says video tomorrow. I guess we will know then. For reference the best 4dr sedan record at Laguna is from BMW M5 F90 which also posted a Nurburgring time 7:38. Can't do direct translation of course but the S is not slow.

That lap was done by the german magazine Sport Auto on standard tires.

You cannot compare Laguna to the Ring. The main straight Döttinger Höhe is 2.6km long and it‘s uphill right to the Antoniusbuche corner. You reach 300kph in a powerful car there and you can go flat out through the corner. There are several sections with speed well above 250 kph so any car with topspeed 260kph will have a disadvantage.

Through the twisty bits the Taycan is actually a bit faster than the M5.

 

[daktari]

Another issue not discussed is the Model S aero. @Realist reminded me. Does Model S have the necessary downforce at Nordschleife speeds without adding more or bigger spoilers?
20,8 Km in 7:40 minutes vs 3,6 Km in 1:40 implies a difference, ie Nordschleife is a much faster track.

 

[Todd Burch]

Not sure it can be done that cheaply though. Ceramic brake is very expensive, usually an option that cost close to $10K when compared to standard brake. Even replacement discs are close to $10K.

Tires are likely going to be a couple thousands if using Pilot Sport 4S around the size that Taycan uses, and most likely they will want a set of light weight wheels as well. So probably a $5k to $6K combo.

Lastly, the body and chassis likely need to be updated to accommodate the wider tires, bigger wheels/brake combo, and improved suspension. Not sure $50K will be enough to cover the cost incurred and still be profitable.

Tesla could charge $90K for the package and still be cheaper than the version Porsche used to set the record....

 

[Todd Burch]

That lap was done by the german magazine Sport Auto on standard tires.

You cannot compare Laguna to the Ring. The main straight Döttinger Höhe is 2.6km long and it‘s uphill right to the Antoniusbuche corner. You reach 300kph in a powerful car there and you can go flat out through the corner. There are several sections with speed well above 250 kph so any car with topspeed 260kph will have a disadvantage.

Through the twisty bits the Taycan is actually a bit faster than the M5.

The top speed of the Model S is a few MPH HIGHER than the Taycan. And probably software-limited. If speed is the concern, Raven could have an advantage there as well.

 

[PhantomX]

Another issue not discussed is the Model S aero. @Realist reminded me. Does Model S have the necessary downforce at Nordschleife speeds without adding more or bigger spoilers?
20,8 Km in 7:40 minutes vs 3,6 Km in 1:40 implies a difference, ie Nordschleife is a much faster track.

Good point. Average speed for Ring is 96mph for a 7:40 time. And M5 had to hit 170mph in that back straight in order to achieve that time. An average speed at Laguna for a 1:40 lap is 76mph. Even for a much faster car like 911 Turbo S (1:33.21 lap), it was only able to hit 140 mph on the front straight.

 

[Realist]

Well yes downforce is important on the Nordschleife, front and rear.

If you add downforce only at the rear you will notice understeer through Flugplatz, Schwedenkreuz, Kesselchen, Klostertal, etc.....you name it.

Furthermore, diffusors are not really working that well because the track is too bumby. This is the reason why you see massive wings and splitters on many fast Nordschleife cars.

Still, you can set fast laps without any downforce as long as the Aero is basically zero lift front and rear. I believe the Taycan is well balanced but noticeable downforce is unlikely.

 

[mongo]

If you add downforce only at the rear you will notice understeer through Flugplatz, Schwedenkreuz, Kesselchen, Klostertal, etc.....you name it.

More differential braking?