Model X Autopilot Problem - Pretty Scary

[X Yes?]

If you don't understand that the AEBS doesn't actually prevent a crash, and that auto-pilot isn't designed to be used in stop-and-go traffic, then you really have no basis for discussing the limitations...

What I didn't mention is how my Model X may occasionally speed up or more often, slow down as the radar is being fooled by vehicles in other lanes on curves or road elevation changes on hills. It does keep this driver alert, even after 6 months of enjoying the "beta" feature.

What is the point of activating this system again?

Otherwise it was a lot of fun. I watched a bunch of people filming me with no hands on the wheel.

No comment necessary on this one.

TACC activates only when AP is enabled (blue cruise control icon on upper right part of sceeen). The part that auto breaks without AP is AEB and it seems it just slows the vehicle down by 15MPH doesn't necessarily apply full brakes in all situations.. Which is confusing and scary

Certainly very scary for the car the AutoPilot "driver" is following.

To really test it you pretty much have to crash into something.

I'll certainly be more alert to Tesla drivers following closely behind.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

What is the point of activating this system again?



No comment necessary on this one.


Certainly very scary for the car the AutoPilot "driver" is following.


I'll certainly be more alert to Tesla drivers following closely behind.

What is the point in only posting negative or flippant comments, while claiming to have interest in purchasing a Model X?

 

[X Yes?]

For Drivin and X Yes, who complain about beta. Just think about it - your favorite auto makers who make there own versions of AP isn't even half as good as Tesla, but they don't call it as beta. Perhaps in software parlance they should be calling it as PoC or unit testing.

Tesla does get the bragging rights of being first. But at what cost to their customers and shareholders?

Cadillac delays CT6 Super Cruise to avoid Tesla controversy [Updated]

Even GM sees the potential liability of these systems in their current state of development.

 

[X Yes?]

What is the point in only posting negative of flippant comments, while claiming to have interest in purchasing a Model X?

What is the point of defending AutoPilot, when you are not using the system and driving a Leaf?

 

[JohnSnowNW]

What is the point of defending AutoPilot, when you are not using the system and driving a Leaf?

Because people are mistaken in their blame of auto-pilot...seemingly to a point that they must have ulterior motives. I would like to have auto-pilot on my Model 3...so countering the absurdity, and willful ignorance, would be personally beneficial.

 

[X Yes?]

Because people are mistaken in their blame of auto-pilot...seemingly to a point that they must have ulterior motives. I would like to have auto-pilot on my Model 3...so countering the absurdity, and willful ignorance, would be personally beneficial.

Maybe it will be fully developed and safe for all drivers at that time. Crashes and user comments don't give me confidence in any of these systems. I would expect that the NTSHA and NSB are evaluating safety data on all the similar systems on the road. Tesla, and other manufacturers are assuming their drivers accept liability for the systems. What about the safety of others on the road?

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Maybe it will be fully developed and safe for all drivers at that time. Crashes and user comments don't give me confidence in any of these systems. I would expect that the NTSHA and NSB are evaluating safety data on all the similar systems on the road. Tesla, and other manufacturers are assuming their drivers accept liability for the systems. What about the safety of others on the road?

Distracted driving accidents occur without driver assist features, everyday. These systems would have to be proven less reliable than vehicles without them. So, your concerns seem to be unfounded, or at least there is no evidence for them.

That said, your post history reveals less concern about autopilot and more about ways of negatively spinning anything related to Tesla. Just my observation, of course.

 

[X Yes?]

Distracted driving accidents occur without driver assist features, everyday. These systems would have to be proven less reliable than vehicles without them. So, your concerns seem to be unfounded, or at least there is no evidence for them.

That said, your post history reveals less concern about autopilot, and more about ways of negatively spinning anything related to Tesla. Just my observation, of course.

Yes John, and your post history shows whatever the concern, whether the facts are in, or not, you side with the Tesla infallibility theory.
Some people love to argue, I know I do, so good thing there is a forum to vent.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Yes John, and your post history shows whatever the concern, whether the facts are in, or not, you side with the Tesla infallibility theory.
Some people love to argue, I know I do, so good thing there is a forum to vent.

Well, it's easy to side with something when logic drives the opinion. Argument is fine, commenting simply to inflame, or antagonize, is not. Which is one of the reasons you've been banned, and I have not.

 

[dhanson865]

@JohnSnowNW you just posted 4 replies in a row without quoting anyone. We have no context to know who or what you were replying to.

In short, you know nothing about quoting JonSnowNW!

 

[xkwizit]

Tesla does get the bragging rights of being first. But at what cost to their customers and shareholders?

Cadillac delays CT6 Super Cruise to avoid Tesla controversy [Updated]

Even GM sees the potential liability of these systems in their current state of development.

Most auto companies are working on similar systems but in their labs. Lab testing can only simulate a certain percentage of scenarios. A good comparison is number of miles of autonomous miles Google had collected versus the AP miles Tesla has collected. Tesla's approach is definitely riskier but will ultimately yield more solid product and much sooner than the competition. The problem with Tesla's approach is not the software it's the drivers who take it for autonomous and forget to keep control.

 

[ohmman]

The issue I see with Autopilot is that it's good enough to lull the driver into believing that it's infallible. If you've done 800 miles with flawless AP driving, you're going to start to expect that the next 800 will be the same. I continually remind myself that this isn't the case. Previous iterations of driver assist features (standard cruise control, then TACC, for instance) were not good enough to successfully trust on even a single drive. You'd have to stay aware and use them as they were intended. AP is closing the gap on autonomy and therefore it fools some drivers into allowing themselves to become distracted.

What is the point of activating this system again?

Silly argument. What was the point of cruise control if you have to disengage it? What's the point of autocomplete if it messes up some words? What's the point of voice transcription if you have to go back and edit sometimes? What's the point of life preservers if they occasionally fail? What's the point of seatbelts when people still get killed wearing them? What's the point of a deer fence when deer can still sometimes jump them?

The point is that all of these things, and most things we've created in life, are there to assist us. They make it better, even if they're not perfect. We humans are required to mind the gap.

 

[X Yes?]

The issue I see with Autopilot is that it's good enough to lull the driver into believing that it's infallible. If you've done 800 miles with flawless AP driving, you're going to start to expect that the next 800 will be the same. I continually remind myself that this isn't the case. Previous iterations of driver assist features (standard cruise control, then TACC, for instance) were not good enough to successfully trust on even a single drive. You'd have to stay aware and use them as they were intended. AP is closing the gap on autonomy and therefore it fools some drivers into allowing themselves to become distracted.

Gotta give you a like here.

 

[X Yes?]

If you've done 800 miles with flawless AP driving, you're going to start to expect that the next 800 will be the same.

What was the point of cruise control if you have to disengage it?

As I get lulled into complacency and stop paying close attention, I've had the same thought.

What's the point of seatbelts when people still get killed wearing them? What's the point of a deer fence when deer can still sometimes jump them?

These are systems that are universally accepted as furthering driver safety. AutoPilot and other similar systems are now getting the scrutiny they deserve to see if drivers and others on the road, are safer or not.

The point is that all of these things, and most things we've created in life, are there to assist us. They make it better, even if they're not perfect. We humans are required to mind the gap.

Unfortunately, the You Tube videos and accidents show not all driver are as prudent as you claim to be.

 

[Aljohn]

I have used Autopilot on Interstates many times. In all cases, when the car ahead slows (even outside the distance of 3 cars setting), my X slows. You may want to take note of the "offset" speed setting. In the settings, make sure the offset is set to "0" mpg limit. I keep mine there, since it tends to over-ride the cruise speed setting and tries to accelerate to the off-set additional setting. So if you are driving on a road for 70 mpm and the Offset speed is set to +10 Mph, then the X will try to get to 80mph, and so on. Mine scared to hell out of me -- not expecting the acceleration, so I would suggest keeping it at "0".

 

[Infinite]

The issue I see with Autopilot is that it's good enough to lull the driver into believing that it's infallible. If you've done 800 miles with flawless AP driving, you're going to start to expect that the next 800 will be the same. I continually remind myself that this isn't the case. Previous iterations of driver assist features (standard cruise control, then TACC, for instance) were not good enough to successfully trust on even a single drive. You'd have to stay aware and use them as they were intended. AP is closing the gap on autonomy and therefore it fools some drivers into allowing themselves to become distracted.

Couldn't agree with you more there.

I have been a avid hater of cruise control to the point that I wouldn't engage it even on fairly long trips. Even someone like me am using AP more often that I thought I would. I am tending to engage AP when I know I am going to be slightly distracted, like when changing music or on a phone call - just as a backup safety measure, activities that I have been perfectly capable of doing on a stick shift for the last 15 years. AP buys me additional peace of mind wherein I am viewing AP as a technology that will help if I slip up and am really not the other way round. So, maybe my expectations of AP are much lower than what many others in this forum have.

 

[woof]

AP buys me additional peace of mind wherein I am viewing AP as a technology that will help if I slip up and am really not the other way round.

Indeed, that's correct. AP is watching for when the driver messes up. I'd also add that the driver is watching for when AP messes up. Neither AP nor driver is 100% effective by itself/herself, yet the combination of both working together is safer than either alone.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I'll certainly be more alert to Tesla drivers following closely behind.

You seem to lack the basic understanding of how these driver assist technologies work. I would suggest going back and doing some research on adaptive cruise control, automatic emergency braking before making any decision on your next car. It doesn't matter if it's a Tesla, BMW, Audi, Subaru, etc. A lot of these systems are very similar from one car to the next.

Read the fine print, and test drive some of them before you start judging them.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

AP is closing the gap on autonomy and therefore it fools some drivers into allowing themselves to become distracted.
.

This is really what it comes down to, and the other points you made.

The problem is we really only have one direction to go. We have to accept the risk that people are going to be fooled because we already have too many people too distracted even without these driver assist technologies. Whether we like it or not we're being pushed to incorporating more and more driver assist features that cover more and more of the driving tasks.

Even if the industry took a breather the consumer won't. The consumer will continue to be more and more consumed with their self interest and what's on their phone. Kids these days grow up with a screen in their hand, and I'm not sure they can function without it.

It's funny to see people fear a Model S/X behind them when the reality is you stand a FAR greater chance of being hit by someone in a much older car without these technologies. If they bothered looking at the statistics they'd see massive reductions when automatic braking systems are used.

We can pretend all we want that this is an Autopilot issue when it's not. I guarantee you there are a lot of owners of other cars that have a false sense of what their adaptive cruise control, AEB, etc systems are capable of. Where they aren't being as vigilant as they would be without those systems. Humans tend to be more risky when safety features are incorporated. Like how it's been shown that drivers will get closer to a bicyclist that's wearing a helmet versus one that isn't. The driver perceives less risk and gets closer even though they don't consciously do it. We certainly don't want to go back to not wearing a helmet anymore than we want to give up are little assist driving buddies.

 

[BigBlueX]

I'll be picking up my XP90DL in Chicago this coming Wednesday, but my experience driving my Ford Explorer with Adaptive Cruise Control shows that it is EXTREMELY reliable, and has so far reacted flawlessly in all traffic situations. (The lane keeping system is a bit primitive and sluggish, though.) Keep in mind that ACC does not function below 25 mph, so there's no "stop-and-go" functionality. However, it DOES brake hard when approaching a vehicle moving significantly slower.
I realize that may not always be the case for everyone, and that the Tesla AP system may not yet be as robust, but I can say that a driver assist system CAN be very safe and reliable. As long as drivers realize that you MUST keep vigilant when driving, it can only make driving safer. It's like having a co-pilot. The more "eyes" on the road, the safer it has to be. The statistics are plain and undisputed on this.
For those who worry and fret every time there is an incident involving AP, I have to ask... How many accidents do you think are occurring during the same time frame that DO NOT involve an AP system?