New Battery for P90D. A Big surprise :)

[themacs]

My P90D battery was just replaced. The tec in Oceanside said he did not know why. He said the test said replace and the factory said yes. It is lousy that you can't find out what was wrong. They also said they could not tell me anything about the replacement battery. Just that it is "refurbished". I was not getting proper milage (that is the reason for the factory visit and replacement).

When I drove the car home it had more power. I looked through the driving section on the screen and it showed it was in the insane mode (which I always had it in), BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER MODE "button" AFTER INSANE: IT SAID INSANE +

Boy it sure seems faster!

Can anyone fathom a guess what this "new" selection is? I asked the folks at the Tesla shop and they had no idea.

I'm sure someone here knows .

Thanks for any help!!

 

[krsgio]

The new software just changed the way to enable max battery power. The insane+/ludicrous+ just is the new way of triggering that but a lot of us with P85D the insane+ isn't working correctly.

 

[Tummy]

Insane plus will also heat the battery. It came out with Firmware 2019.8.1 I believe.

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

My P90D battery was just replaced. The tec in Oceanside said he did not know why. He said the test said replace and the factory said yes. It is lousy that you can't find out what was wrong. They also said they could not tell me anything about the replacement battery. Just that it is "refurbished". I was not getting proper milage (that is the reason for the factory visit and replacement).

When I drove the car home it had more power. I looked through the driving section on the screen and it showed it was in the insane mode (which I always had it in), BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER MODE "button" AFTER INSANE: IT SAID INSANE +

Boy it sure seems faster!

Can anyone fathom a guess what this "new" selection is? I asked the folks at the Tesla shop and they had no idea.

I'm sure someone here knows .

Thanks for any help!!

How much range did you have originally, and how much did it drop to when they agreed to swap your battery?

 

[Oldschool496]

How much range did you have originally, and how much did it drop to when they agreed to swap your battery?

Yes we all want to know as I have another friend with and 85 that has his battery refurbished, when they put it back in it was the almost exact same range remaining-not so weird.

Then later they replaced it with a newly refurbished battery and it was almost exactly the same range remaining.

That got us to thinking, does Tesla dial these things back either by replacement or in our cars? I took my car for 2 year service at the time they installed version 9 and I lost 7-8 miles or so in range in that visit?? SO we are all wondering the same question here.

 

[sillydriver]

My P90D battery was just replaced. The tec in Oceanside said he did not know why. He said the test said replace and the factory said yes. It is lousy that you can't find out what was wrong. They also said they could not tell me anything about the replacement battery. Just that it is "refurbished". I was not getting proper milage (that is the reason for the factory visit and replacement).

When I drove the car home it had more power. I looked through the driving section on the screen and it showed it was in the insane mode (which I always had it in), BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER MODE "button" AFTER INSANE: IT SAID INSANE +

Boy it sure seems faster!

Can anyone fathom a guess what this "new" selection is? I asked the folks at the Tesla shop and they had no idea.

I'm sure someone here knows .

Thanks for any help!!

I recall there were at least 3 versions of the P90D battery. I think the earliest produced the same power output as the P85D with the Ludicrous upgrade (the car I have) but the later versions produced more. Perhaps they replaced yours with one of the later versions.

I think they applied the latest firmware while your car was in the shop. The latest has Insane+ and ludicrous+ instead of a "max battery power" button, but my guess is that the appearance of Insane+ is just incidental to the power increase, which I would guess is due to getting a later battery version.

What I don't understand is why it says insane and not ludicrous. My memory of this is poor (since my car is a P85D) but I thought all the P90Ds were shipped with ludicrous.

 

[ASMills85]

I recall there were at least 3 versions of the P90D battery. I think the earliest produced the same power output as the P85D with the Ludicrous upgrade (the car I have) but the later versions produced more. Perhaps they replaced yours with one of the later versions.

I think they applied the latest firmware while your car was in the shop. The latest has Insane+ and ludicrous+ instead of a "max battery power" button, but my guess is that the appearance of Insane+ is just incidental to the power increase, which I would guess is due to getting a later battery version.

What I don't understand is why it says insane and not ludicrous. My memory of this is poor (since my car is a P85D) but I thought all the P90Ds were shipped with ludicrous.

They probably did replace it with a newer revision battery which has more potential, but that shouldn’t matter. Since he doesn’t have Ludicrous he is still limited to the 1300amps and won’t see the benefit he would have from going from 1500-1600amps. His power output should be around 415kw.
Ludicrous was an option on the P90D, it wasn’t a given. Even the P100D where it was more or less part of the car there are cars running around with it optioned out to lower the price. As you said the Insane+ is just from the newest software and is the same as max battery mode. If anything he would be seeing less power output because from what I understand insane+/ludicrous+ on P85D and P90Ds is broken currently and doesn’t engage the battery warmer. I’m still stuck on old software so I can’t test mine.

 

[Tam]

...not getting proper milage...

Would you please expand on the battery problem:

1) Not charging up to set limit? For example: Set at 100% but could only reach 91%.
2) Range loss? 100% full charge used to get 270 miles but then only got 243 miles lately?
3) Shutdown above 0 miles or 0%? There's plenty of miles on battery gauge like 43 miles or 16% but the car shuts down?

 

[themacs]

Yes we all want to know as I have another friend with and 85 that has his battery refurbished, when they put it back in it was the almost exact same range remaining-not so weird.

Then later they replaced it with a newly refurbished battery and it was almost exactly the same range remaining.

That got us to thinking, does Tesla dial these things back either by replacement or in our cars? I took my car for 2 year service at the time they installed version 9 and I lost 7-8 miles or so in range in that visit?? SO we are all wondering the same question here.

Just got back on the board after another trip. I was shocked that the max milage did not change. After all that was one of the reasons to replace it. I used to get 245 and I now get 245. Thoughts??

 

[themacs]

Would you please expand on the battery problem:

1) Not charging up to set limit? For example: Set at 100% but could only reach 91%.
2) Range loss? 100% full charge used to get 270 miles but then only got 243 miles lately?
3) Shutdown above 0 miles or 0%? There's plenty of miles on battery gauge like 43 miles or 16% but the car shuts down?

My problem was that it said 245 miles at 100% and I got about 185-195. I am in S. Cal by the water so it doesn't get really hot or cold. No heater use and conservative driving, for the most part.
Now I have more power for sure! But I expected the 245 to go up and the driven miles to go up. I will be taking a trip this weekend so I will see.

 

[ahkahn]

Would you please expand on the battery problem:

1) Not charging up to set limit? For example: Set at 100% but could only reach 91%.
2) Range loss? 100% full charge used to get 270 miles but then only got 243 miles lately?
3) Shutdown above 0 miles or 0%? There's plenty of miles on battery gauge like 43 miles or 16% but the car shuts down?

You mention shutdown above 0 miles. Mine shut down at 1 mile a couple weeks ago. I figured the battery was out of calibration, and didn't think much about as I coasted into the SuperCharger. Is this a problem?

 

[croman]

You mention shutdown above 0 miles. Mine shut down at 1 mile a couple weeks ago. I figured the battery was out of calibration, and didn't think much about as I coasted into the SuperCharger. Is this a problem?

No that's normal likely due to calibration across cells and modules. An issue is likely with 10+ miles left.

 

[David99]

You mention shutdown above 0 miles. Mine shut down at 1 mile a couple weeks ago. I figured the battery was out of calibration, and didn't think much about as I coasted into the SuperCharger. Is this a problem?

The BMS tries to avoid that but it can happen. Depends on several conditions. For example lower temperatures or hard acceleration at low battery levels can cause the BMS to shut down before it shows 0 miles left. When the battery shuts down at 10 miles ore more left, then you most likely have a serious issue with the battery. I don't think 1 mile before 0 is an issue. That's less than half of a percent.

 

[ahkahn]

The BMS tries to avoid that but it can happen. Depends on several conditions. For example lower temperatures or hard acceleration at low battery levels can cause the BMS to shut down before it shows 0 miles left. When the battery shuts down at 10 miles ore more left, then you most likely have a serious issue with the battery. I don't think 1 mile before 0 is an issue. That's less than half of a percent.

I always thought there was some kind of grace mileage built in there? I've gone past zero before (accidentally) without issue. Crap... my wife goes like 30 miles past zero on her ICE car.....

 

[Oldschool496]

After all that was one of the reasons to replace it. I used to get 245 and I now get 245. Thoughts??

Did they actually replace it or did they just refurb it? The only way I know you will know for sure is the serial of the battery up close to the right front tire, you would have had to record it of course before all this with the tires turned hard to the left-even then your all the way on the ground to see it with flashlight in hand.

I'm thinking: From above -That got us to thinking, does Tesla "dial" these things back either by replacement or in our cars (as time goes by)?

Anyone out there have an explanation for this exactness of replacement battery range? I hear all these terms thrown around BMS etc. What is happening here in this example and others like it???

 

[2BEnhanced]

On my refresh (AP2.0) P90D, I get a displayed range estimate of 255 when at 100%. My actual mileage averages 196. I have taken my car in complaining that 196 miles is far short of the 270 when I bought the car. The only response has been that my mileage is "normal". I am very disappointed in this range as it is 27% below the advertised range, but I don't see any recourse.

 

[MP3Mike]

On my refresh (AP2.0) P90D, I get a displayed range estimate of 255 when at 100%. My actual mileage averages 196. I have taken my car in complaining that 196 miles is far short of the 270 when I bought the car. The only response has been that my mileage is "normal". I am very disappointed in this range as it is 27% below the advertised range, but I don't see any recourse.

What was your actual mileage back when your car was new and it reported a full charge at 270 miles?

It sounds like you have about 6% degradation, which is perfectly normal. You can't really complain about the ~20% less range you are getting from the EPA predicted range, unless you are driving like the EPA test. (What is your average Wh/mile for your run to get 196 miles out of a full 255 mile charge?)

 

[ahkahn]

What was your actual mileage back when your car was new and it reported a full charge at 270 miles?

It sounds like you have about 6% degradation, which is perfectly normal. You can't really complain about the ~20% less range you are getting from the EPA predicted range, unless you are driving like the EPA test. (What is your average Wh/mile for your run to get 196 miles out of a full 255 mile charge?)

Yeah, and if it's that big of a difference, I'd also suggest checking tire inflation....

 

[2BEnhanced]

What was your actual mileage back when your car was new and it reported a full charge at 270 miles?

It sounds like you have about 6% degradation, which is perfectly normal. You can't really complain about the ~20% less range you are getting from the EPA predicted range, unless you are driving like the EPA test. (What is your average Wh/mile for your run to get 196 miles out of a full 255 mile charge?)

I didn't check my mileage for the first year. I just trusted the display until I checked a year later and noted it wasn't close to my actual range. I have be logging for past year and those are the numbers I quoted.
I average 350Wh/mi.
My tires are at +2 to +3 psi above recommended.
My ICE cars get much closer to EPA than my MS.

 

[MP3Mike]

I average 350Wh/mi.

That right there is your problem. If I recall correctly rated range is ~295Wh/mi. (I'm not positive on that and don't have time to look it up right now.) So that puts you at ~19% over rated.