Newer P90DL makes 662 hp at the battery!!!

[TIppy]

Of course I'm speculating like everyone else here but there are many things that could be responsible for the increased power.

There is no speculation about the decreased voltage sag and increased current. I measured them. And this combination of voltage and current gives the horsepower that tesla is quoting for the p100dl. And they stated that there had been no change to the drivetrain, only the pack.

 

[msnow]

There is no speculation about the decreased voltage sag and increased current. I measured them. And this combination of voltage and current gives the horsepower that tesla is quoting for the p100dl.

His post was about the performance of the "newer cars" and *parenthetically* about the P100DL so with that in mind many things could have changed but only Tesla knows the specific details.

 

[St Charles]

There is no speculation about the decreased voltage sag and increased current. I measured them. And this combination of voltage and current gives the horsepower that tesla is quoting for the p100dl.

Along those lines, I think what we will see is the voltage sag improvements in the latest 90kW packs carried over to the 100kW packs which have more cells. There was another post somewhere that talked about the possibility of the 100kW pack have an additional 700 or so cells added. This would, of course, reduce the load per cell which decreases voltage sag increasing the total power output of the pack.

 

[TIppy]

Along those lines, I think what we will see is the voltage sag improvements in the latest 90kW packs carried over to the 100kW packs which have more cells. There was another post somewhere that talked about the possibility of the 100kW pack have an additional 700 or so cells added. This would, of course, reduce the load per cell which decreases voltage sag increasing the total power output of the pack.

I'm not so sure there are more cells. I wasn't on the line with the reporters, but a quote I saw was that the new pack used the same "cell technology". That's not the same as saying the exact same cells. Using the same cell technology they could eek out another 10% from the same number of cells.
If it is the same cells, they would need another 768 cells. They'd have to find equivalent area of a square a foot and a half on a side inside the pack to fit those in.

 

[TIppy]

His post was about the performance of the "newer cars" and *parenthetically* about the P100DL so with that in mind many things could have changed but only Tesla knows the specific details.

My statements apply equally to the "newer cars." The better performance comes from less sag and more current.

 

[MP3Mike]

If it is the same cells, they would need another 768 cells. They'd have to find equivalent area of a square a foot and a half on a side inside the pack to fit those in.

That is why they completely redesigned the insides of the pack. They are probably using a whole lot less space for cooling so that they can fit the additional required cells in.

 

[msnow]

My statements apply equally to the "newer cars." The better performance comes from less sag and more current.

Ok so how were you able to measure a v1, v2, v3 and 100d using that criteria to obtain that data? Performance is a fairly broad concept.

 

[TIppy]

If there are more cells in parallel than the p90d, then they should have been able to do better on the shaft horsepower. But I guess they could be holding out for V2 of the P100DL.

 

[TIppy]

Ok so how were you able to measure a v1, v2, v3 and 100d using that criteria to obtain that data? Performance is a fairly broad concept.

Yeah, they all had different power from the battery. And others had measured voltage sag.

 

[TIppy]

That is why they completely redesigned the insides of the pack. They are probably using a whole lot less space for cooling so that they can fit the additional required cells in.

I don't think they said it was to free up more space.

"It's a pretty big change in the battery module and pack technology," said JB Straubel, CTO of Tesla, on a call with reporters. "It's a complete redo on the cooling architecture."

 

[TIppy]

Does anyone know if transcripts or recordings of these conference calls tesla has with reporters are available?

 

[TIppy]

The original cooling system was designed when they were pulling around 1000 amps out of the pack. The redesigned cooling may just be to handle the extra cell heating and IIR losses in the pack from pulling 1600 amps.

 

[Walta]

Well that brought my miles down considerably. Back to reality.

What are you getting for your new numbers for 90% and 100% charge when in rated mode?

 

[TIppy]

Whether the p100d pack doesn't have any extra power, or they are just limiting it to the same power as the latest p90d packs, the performance will be the same.

 

[TIppy]

Maybe in a few months they'll come out with an even more heavy duty explosive fuse that you can upgrade your pack with. For an additional $10,000 your pack will supply 1700 amps and enable plaid mode. Probably just ludicrouser mode. They're saving plaid for the new roadster.

 

[sorka]

Has anyone else noticed that the 10.9 claim has now been totally removed from Tesla website and you can't buy a new P90DL car anymore. A new (dare I say v4) P90D doesn't do Ludicrous and will only go 0-60 in 3.0 seconds (no claims of 1/4 mile time).

I think this is a correction to fix their over-promosing original Ludicrous performance. Only issue now is making it right with the original "L" owners.

If the 737 hp P100DL can only do 10.8 then it's obvious that the 614 hp P90DL V1 could never come close to 10.9 so of course they didn't advertise the 1/4 mile.

 

[MarcG]

Funny that they also removed range, specs, and performance figures from the Model S details (not the order) web page:
Model S | Tesla

It used to have details per the below screenshot (this is from mid-July):

 

[P85DEE]

If the 737 hp P100DL can only do 10.8 then it's obvious that the 614 hp P90DL V1 could never come close to 10.9 so of course they didn't advertise the 1/4 mile.

One would think so and conventional wisdom would lean toward what you say, but then it could all come down to where and how power is delivered, total vehicle weight with options, etc.

However I said this before and I'll say it again: "Any actual owner thinking as you appear to be thinking, and that is, "Tesla lied about 10.9 back in 2015", well he need only put his money where his thoughts are, if his thoughts on whether or not 10.9 was a lie are consistent with what yours appear to be, and hire an attorney and sue for false advertising.

Anything else is just cage rattling.

I'd say to any owner thinking on this matter as you do, and also taking no obvious legal steps toward actual and tangible remedies, as seems to be your case:

"OK, so you say they lied about 10.9 back when?

Alright, well aside from talk, what are you going to do about it to square it up?"

And if the answer to that is "nothing, except continue to talk", well then maybe this wasn't as big a deal as some of us let on.

Seriously, I'm looking at people in her carrying on about how "wrong" this was and how it's going to "hurt" Tesla, and in the very next breath talking about ordering P100Ds.

If I didn't know better I'd say that it looks like the new and accepted way to square things these days is to get on Internet message boards, gripe and bellyache about how this or that company gypped and raped either you or someone else, and then exclaim; "But oh yeah, BTW, even though I'm coming onto the Internet and bitching that they ripped someone else off, or even ripped me off and badly, I'm going to be the first in line to buy the next product they bring to market."

 

[St Charles]

One would think so and conventional wisdom would lean toward what you say, but then it could all come down to where and how power is delivered, total vehicle weight with options, etc.

However I said this before and I'll say it again: "Any actual owner thinking as you appear to be thinking, and that is, "Tesla lied about 10.9 back in 2015", well he need only put his money where his thoughts are, if his thoughts on whether or not 10.9 was a lie are consistent with what yours appear to be, and hire an attorney and sue for false advertising.

Anything else is just cage rattling.

I'd say to any owner thinking on this matter as you do, and also taking no obvious legal steps toward actual and tangible remedies, as seems to be your case:

"OK, so you say they lied about 10.9 back when?

Alright, well aside from talk, what are you going to do about it to square it up?"

And if the answer to that is "nothing, except continue to talk", well then maybe this wasn't as big a deal as some of us let on.

Seriously, I'm looking at people in her carrying on about how "wrong" this was and how it's going to "hurt" Tesla, and in the very next breath talking about ordering P100Ds.

If I didn't know better I'd say that it looks like the new and accepted way to square things these days is to get on Internet message boards, gripe and bellyache about how this or that company gypped and raped either you or someone else, and then exclaim; "But oh yeah, BTW, even though I'm coming onto the Internet and bitching that they ripped someone else off, or even ripped me off and badly, I'm going to be the first in line to buy the next product they bring to market."

I get your point. But there is a difference between being upset and being upset to the point of financial ruin. It will cost thousands less to just buy a 100kW pack then it would be to file suit. While I agree with you that yelling at an enthusiast message board is effective as a monkey ****ing a football, filing a lawsuit would be equally as useless.

 

[P85DEE]

I get your point. But there is a difference between being upset and being upset to the point of financial ruin. It will cost thousands less to just buy a 100kW pack then it would be to file suit. While I agree with you that yelling at an enthusiast message board is effective as a monkey ****ing a football, filing a lawsuit would be equally as useless.

Indeed, and that's part of my point.

They know it and I know it.

And the reason why filing a lawsuit over this matter would be as effective as a monkey ****ing a football, is because they have no provable case.

And if you have no provable case, well then unless ****ing footballs just makes one feel better during the actual process, what really is the point in carrying on about it?

That's why I look at sorka's post in amazement and responded to it in the way that I did.

Why keep whining about this matter if you're not going to do anything about it except whine some more?

Enjoy what you have and move on, or just simply whine about what you didn't get and don't have the motivation to go and get?

But instead of moving on, doing the logical thing and getting the Preparation H, and letting things settle down, some of us think it better to just "pass" another football, thinking that while not a remedy, that it will make us feel better.

Well there's a price to be paid for that.

The person simply ends up butt hurt.

So yeah, that might work for a few minutes. But at the end of the day, it solves nothing.

It's time to drop that matter and quit "passing" footballs, unless one plans on taking action over it.