BluestarE3
Active Member
A few days after the Model S you'd recently ordered has left the factory and is in transit to you.
Petra
Member
No, you get acceleration and that's about it. At least when you fork over the cash for something like an M5, you're getting a car with vastly superior handling and braking compared to a standard 5-series in addition to more power. This isn't the case with the Model S. Also, the performance versions of the Model S are likely cash cows for Tesla since acceleration (power) is pretty cheap to attain reliably with an electric drivetrain, unlike an ICE.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Oh they're definitely cash cows, and yeah it's all about acceleration. But when your competition for that level of acceleration is selling cars for a hundred thousand to a million dollars more, you can charge what you want.
KidDoc
Supporting Member
I have a feeling that many M3 preorder people think the same thing but I would be prepared to be disappointed. I expect the model 3 to be a Camry relative to a Lexus or BMW for the Model s or x.
I would be happy to be wrong since I want Tesla to be hugely successful.
If we are really comparing Model S to the Audi A8 class, here is Audi's new one.
Compared to this a Model S looks pretty much like Model 3 class.
The guy is having both his back and feet massaged on that rear seat, while using the tablet that detaches from the rear console...
In addition to four massaging (and ventilated) seats, there are six screens there, three of them touch with haptic feedback...
Compared to this a Model S looks pretty much like Model 3 class.
The guy is having both his back and feet massaged on that rear seat, while using the tablet that detaches from the rear console...
In addition to four massaging (and ventilated) seats, there are six screens there, three of them touch with haptic feedback...
If we are really comparing Model S to the Audi A8 class, here is Audi's new one.
Compared to this a Model S looks pretty much like Model 3 class.
The guy is having both his back and feet massaged on that rear seat, while using the tablet that detaches from the rear console...
In addition to four massaging (and ventilated) seats, there are six screens there, three of them touch with haptic feedback...
I really wish the S had an interior like that. Maybe not all the gimmicky massage stuff but I would love to have seats like that
Some of the stuff is obviously for chauffering use, but personally I miss the massaging driver (and front passenger) seat of my 2010 Audi A8. It was really nice... Model S was rather a barren wasteland afterwards, I tell you that.
The drivetrain and the touchscreen of course helped to make the switch, but still no denying that the Tesla interior quality is a far cry from actual "luxury" class.
I'm leaning on Tesla being wiser at targeting the volume 5 Series/Audi A6 segment more (lower the Model S base price 10k and add paid options for some more comforts in the high-end)...
Boy, I sure hope not. If the Model 3 is to compete against the BMW 3, as promised, the interior cannot be pruned much from the S.
Who knows. The best explanation for the state of Tesla interiors in 2017 is too much input from Musk. From the photos it looks like the model 3 interior was professionally designed. But we will see.
Companies go down paths and have a hard time changing direction. I'm sure GM spent a lot of money designing the front seats on the Bolt. They would have been better of just using a know seat design.
Science fan
Member
I see the S and the 3 as fairly well differentiated products. The S is significantly larger and heavier than the 3. Along with that is increased safety (#1 on my list), comfort, lots more storage, and a more luxurious feel. The S (and X) are made of aircraft grade aluminum, rather than steel. The 3 may be preferred by many for use in urban areas. It may also be preferred by people who have smallish families or live alone. True, some potential S owners will purchase the 3 for financial reasons - perfectly rational - but I think that the S and the 3 will appeal to different demographics, with not too much overlap. My hope is that Tesla does not devote too much capital to appearance-only changes, like the U.S. big three used to do, but that they simply continue to focus on improving the quality of each of their products.
If we are really comparing Model S to the Audi A8 class, here is Audi's new one.
Compared to this a Model S looks pretty much like Model 3 class.
The guy is having both his back and feet massaged on that rear seat, while using the tablet that detaches from the rear console...
In addition to four massaging (and ventilated) seats, there are six screens there, three of them touch with haptic feedback...
I wonder what the price is as pictured. With L3 autonomous.. might make me a little sick if it is less then I paid for my AP1 that became obsolete 3 weeks after receiving.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Depends. If you take a naked, bare-bones S 75, it is indeed around 70K Euro over here. Which is over 75K USD by the way. That is already twice the Model 3 starting price, and honestly, who wants a bare-bones Model S? If it is to have any advantages over Model 3 in the "premium" category, you at least need a non-standard colour, a nicer interior, and some optional extras like the upgrade package, etc. Even with an S 75 (non-D) you arrive in the mid 90K Euro range, even without all the optional extras.
As DocZ said, it's a great car, but not 100K Euro kind of great great.
And a fully loaded P100D is almost 200K Euro or more than 220K USD(!). That's as ludicrous as its acceleration.
These are ultimately "champagne problems", but I don't think anyone who's either driven or been driven in (more likely!) some of the high-end Mercs, Audis etc can claim the Model S has a luxury interior. It's a great one, and entirely functional, but it's not luxury.
Tesla will eventually have to up the interior 'interest' levels though - backseat passengers in the S don't have anything to play with, the seats do get uncomfortable on long journeys (this is where massage seats come into play nicely), and the car itself is actually quite noisy - not in terms of engine noise - but the cabin doesn't have much sound proofing. The wind noise from the glass roof, the road noise and the general ambient noise levels from outside are quite high compared to the Mercs and Audi's (and if you've ever been in a Rolls Royce, my goodness)...
Also, the lighting in the Tesla is really poor compared to any car. I did get the premium upgrade and it's not particularly premium. I would have thought the easiest thing to do would simply be offer that package as standard as the car ages, then introduce a new luxury package that adds all sorts of cool shenanigans.
I love my Model S - it drives like nothing else on Earth. But, I wouldn't call it a luxury car - it's for sure a nice car, though!
Tesla will eventually have to up the interior 'interest' levels though - backseat passengers in the S don't have anything to play with, the seats do get uncomfortable on long journeys (this is where massage seats come into play nicely), and the car itself is actually quite noisy - not in terms of engine noise - but the cabin doesn't have much sound proofing. The wind noise from the glass roof, the road noise and the general ambient noise levels from outside are quite high compared to the Mercs and Audi's (and if you've ever been in a Rolls Royce, my goodness)...
Also, the lighting in the Tesla is really poor compared to any car. I did get the premium upgrade and it's not particularly premium. I would have thought the easiest thing to do would simply be offer that package as standard as the car ages, then introduce a new luxury package that adds all sorts of cool shenanigans.
I love my Model S - it drives like nothing else on Earth. But, I wouldn't call it a luxury car - it's for sure a nice car, though!
All the back seat luxury stuff, including stretch versions of sedans, is for China. Tesla obviously got sucked into this vortex too. We will see how it works out.
Most likely the model 3 is noisier and has a more plastic interior compared to the S. We are comparing an idealized model 3 to the real model S. The 320i is not an impressive car. Ignoring the nameplate, a Camry or Accord is more luxurious in every way at that price point.
Most likely the model 3 is noisier and has a more plastic interior compared to the S. We are comparing an idealized model 3 to the real model S. The 320i is not an impressive car. Ignoring the nameplate, a Camry or Accord is more luxurious in every way at that price point.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
What's a Toyota Camry?
Just kidding, I know it's quite a popular car in the US, in Europe that's a different matter. It was so unpopular over here that Toyota stopped importing it more than a decade ago.
And as for anyone claiming that a Toyota could be more "luxurious" than a BMW, that's totally laughable. I have yet to see a Japanese or indeed any other Asian car with an interior that could come even close to what luxury feels like. Don't even have to go that far, if I want crappy plastic interiors with no sense of style whatsoever, I can buy a Dacia at a third of the price.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think BMW interiors qualify as "luxury" either. That word is for cars like Rolls, Bentley and the like. "Premium" is the word that is much more fitting imho. The BMWs or Mercs (or Audis) I have driven or sat in had premium interiors. No Toyota I have ever sat in or saw in car reviews had an interior I would call premium. Perhaps the Japanese produce different cars for the American market with higher quality / better interiors. But over here, someone who wants a premium interior doesn't buy a Toyota.
For what it's worth, this is the current top of the line interior of the current top of the line Toyota (other than Prius/Mirai) available in Germany:
That screams anti-premium to me, honestly. Cheap, boring, uninspired, you name it.
Just kidding, I know it's quite a popular car in the US, in Europe that's a different matter. It was so unpopular over here that Toyota stopped importing it more than a decade ago.
And as for anyone claiming that a Toyota could be more "luxurious" than a BMW, that's totally laughable. I have yet to see a Japanese or indeed any other Asian car with an interior that could come even close to what luxury feels like. Don't even have to go that far, if I want crappy plastic interiors with no sense of style whatsoever, I can buy a Dacia at a third of the price.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think BMW interiors qualify as "luxury" either. That word is for cars like Rolls, Bentley and the like. "Premium" is the word that is much more fitting imho. The BMWs or Mercs (or Audis) I have driven or sat in had premium interiors. No Toyota I have ever sat in or saw in car reviews had an interior I would call premium. Perhaps the Japanese produce different cars for the American market with higher quality / better interiors. But over here, someone who wants a premium interior doesn't buy a Toyota.
For what it's worth, this is the current top of the line interior of the current top of the line Toyota (other than Prius/Mirai) available in Germany:
That screams anti-premium to me, honestly. Cheap, boring, uninspired, you name it.
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They are call
They are called Lexus, and I would put them in the premium bin. My Aston Martin had a wonderful interior, but it was simple and I don't feel my model S as being less. Sure it doesn't have extra gadgetry or seats with 100 positions but the leather is suple and I have leather, aluminum, or Alcántara everywhere I touch. I personally don't like Mercedes interiors for example, and now they try to sell you Pleather crap on top of it. The A8 does look nice though, and if the Porsche mission E doesn't have the 50 center buttons that current porsches do it will probably be quite a nice play to be in
They are called Lexus, and I would put them in the premium bin. My Aston Martin had a wonderful interior, but it was simple and I don't feel my model S as being less. Sure it doesn't have extra gadgetry or seats with 100 positions but the leather is suple and I have leather, aluminum, or Alcántara everywhere I touch. I personally don't like Mercedes interiors for example, and now they try to sell you Pleather crap on top of it. The A8 does look nice though, and if the Porsche mission E doesn't have the 50 center buttons that current porsches do it will probably be quite a nice play to be in
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Lexus? Right, put them in the bin. Premium or otherwise
Honestly, Lexus is just as boring and ugly as Toyota, just overpriced too. No wonder no one buys a Lexus.
Just for reference, Lexus sold 1,627 cars in Germany this year over its entire range. Tesla sold 1,895. Even though BEVs are still highly unpopular over here and Tesla are a totally niche company.
So much for Lexus.
Where are those luxury touches? I dont even have a vanity mirror which is an embarrassment on a 100k car.
Is there any evidence to support this, or is it just speculation? I was thinking so too, but Tesla has been doing a bunch of small, easy things to separate the S and the 3, that have the negative (to Tesla) effect of closing the product gap between the 75/75D, the 100D and the P100D, while leaving an absolutely enormous price gap.
I wonder if they would be doing those things if the new interior was in the immediate future?
