[NYT] How did GM Create Tesla's Dream Car First?

[Big Dog]

Michiganers can go online or use a phone to order a Tesla and have it delivered to their street.

And the closest service center is where?

I'll answer my own question: "Even though Tesla doesn’t operate any store or service center in the state, the automaker reportedly already has over 400 customers. Tesla owners have to go to Chicago or Cleveland for service..."

Seriously, is that even realistic for anyone but the most devoted Elon-fan?

Tesla owners give test drives in Michigan circumventing the Tesla sales ban

Tam: Thus, it is not about the public masses.
Me; We'll just have to agree to disagree.

P.S. Elon disagrees with you too! He claims to want to be selling ~1 million cars by 2020. Who will be buying those, if not the "masses." (Hint: the number one selling sedan is the Camry at 330k units/year. If that is not a car for the masses, I don't know what is.)

 

[Tam]

P.S. Elon disagrees with you too! He claims to want to be selling ~1 million cars by 2020. Who will be buying those, if not the "masses." (Hint: the number one selling sedan is the Camry at 330k units/year. If that is not a car for the masses, I don't know what is.)

I am sorry. I was not talking about volume production or mass buying.

I was answering about the absence of a frunk.

I agree that public masses would not be turned off because of an absence of a frunk. So it is not about proving all the polling of the public masses on whether they will skip the car without a frunk.

I was talking about it's nice that GM is bringing the Bolt on the market but it could show more of its effort and commitment.

 

[apacheguy]

Ugh. NYT gets it wrong. Again...

 

[number12]

Tesla needed to whip out a bunch of $100k+ cars for the capital to build 3. Gm is GM

 

[roblab]

I don't disagree, BUT holding that position as a resident makes purchasing an EV extremely problematic. Only something that those with money and/or time would do. So, if the goal is to expand EV's and the charging network, right now the only practical option in MI is GM. Service in Cleveland or Chicago is only for the hard-core enthusiasts.

I know, I know. But I hear this allatime. "Service is so far away," etc. I have owned my car a year. When should I take it in for service? And, more importantly, Why? People who grew up in Gas Cars think they must have "service" every 3000 miles or so (I have nearly 30,000). I say bunk. Tesla used to say service was not required, and in truth, most of it happens over the air.

Now, if something doesn't *work*, well, maybe. But you can go years (At least, I plan to). I also remember when the Leaf first came out, Nissan decided it needed to do "service" on the battery fluid, or some such. They didn't do anything, but charged you anyway. I suppose I'm just a hard core enthusiast.

 

[Tam]

..."Service is so far away," etc...

From Detroit, MI to Ohio Service Center is about 180 miles. I live in Visalia, CA and that's about the same distance for me to go to a nearest Service Center as well. (Northward is preferable which is about 200 miles to Fremont, CA.)

As for the last four years, I only need to stop by it for an annual appointment.

In between, when my dryer outlet charger adapter got overheated, I received a replacement by mail the next day from Tesla.

I would feel more comfortable if there's a Service Center in Visalia, CA but so far, the experience has been positive.

 

[Big Dog]

But I hear this allatime. "Service is so far away," etc.

Thank you for making my point, even if you did not intend to. The masses will continue to react just this way; its human nature, since they've had generations of needing a repair shop close by. They will purchase an EV from GM instead, even if it is not as well engineered.

I applaud you guys/gals willing to go the extra mile(s). Personally, I would not be on the list for a M3 if the nearest service center was hours away. I wouldn't buy a Volt either -- not a fan of the EconoBox look. Instead, I'd just keep my fully-depreciated ICE cars running. (1989, 2001, 2003)

 

[brucet999]

lifestyle focus

OMG, he's right. Trustworthy, Loyal . . Clean & Reverent is not enough! Apparently all these years I've been deficient in Lifestyle Focus. This Tesla Fanboy now sees the Light!

nonetheless:

TM M3: North American Content = 100% (??) since body, power unit & battery all made in NA.

GM Bolt: North American Content = 60% (??) since power unit & battery made in S Korea.
--

Actually, LG's biggest battery factory is in Holland, Michigan.

 

[brucet999]

As a result the most damning evidence against the bolt is right in the NYT article (as @mark alludes to above):

This alone is a reason not to buy a bolt even if you can somehow agree its a better car than the Tesla. This goes against the very essence of Elon's SMP. If anything the bolt is a step backwards.

Even if it were true that Bolt is only a way to meet CAFE standards and leave room for more ICE SUV sales, it is still a net plus for BEVs because instead of just buying credits from Tesla, GM will be putting their name and reputation on a 200+ mile BEV. Thousands of GM buyers will be exposed to the Bolt on dealers' lots, many of them will test drive it out of curiosity, and some will buy it instead of a small ICE vehicle.

I don't see a step backward in the Bolt.

 

[TexasEV]

Even if it were true that Bolt is only a way to meet CAFE standards and leave room for more ICE SUV sales, it is still a net plus for BEVs because instead of just buying credits from Tesla, GM will be putting their name and reputation on a 200+ mile BEV. Thousands of GM buyers will be exposed to the Bolt on dealers' lots, many of them will test drive it out of curiosity, and some will buy it instead of a small ICE vehicle.

I don't see a step backward in the Bolt.

At 30,000 cars/year, I don't think thousands of GM buyers will be exposed to Bolts on dealers lots. That works out to less than one Bolt per Chevy dealer per month.

 

[William13]

The best competition is bad competition (Bolt), not no competition.

 

[Saghost]

At 30,000 cars/year, I don't think thousands of GM buyers will be exposed to Bolts on dealers lots. That works out to less than one Bolt per Chevy dealer per month.

If GM sells thirty thousand per year in the U.S., it seems obvious that tens of thousands of buyers would be exposed to the cars, since tens of thousands are buying...

It's true that this is a drop in the bucket for GM overall, but it's a start, and every bit of mindshare EVs can get with the general public helps.

 

[diamond.g]

If GM sells thirty thousand per year in the U.S., it seems obvious that tens of thousands of buyers would be exposed to the cars, since tens of thousands are buying...

It's true that this is a drop in the bucket for GM overall, but it's a start, and every bit of mindshare EVs can get with the general public helps.

That is like ten Bolts per dealership assuming all of the dealerships get Bolt certified. Not a lot of Bolts given the area, but then again the same could be said of Tesla.

 

[Saghost]

That is like ten Bolts per dealership assuming all of the dealerships get Bolt certified. Not a lot of Bolts given the area, but then again the same could be said of Tesla.

True. And I wasn't saying it was enough, or that I wouldn't be happy to see them sell more (though LG can't make enough battery packs for a lot more) - just that they will easily meet and surpass the 'thousands of people' from the earlier posts.

 

[diamond.g]

True. And I wasn't saying it was enough, or that I wouldn't be happy to see them sell more (though LG can't make enough battery packs for a lot more) - just that they will easily meet and surpass the 'thousands of people' from the earlier posts.

Ah fair enough. The biggest thing folks will have to be worried about? If the Bolt is a big hit, look for huge price markups with such limited availability...

 

[anticitizen13.7]

do you really believe that the masses, who are looking for an economical car to get back and forth to work, are going to care about extra storage space? If so, why? Are there market studies indicating that a subcompact does not have enough storage space to lug junk back and forth to work?

Extra storage space may not be a deal breaker, but cars, like mobile phones, are as much about fashion as they are about utility.

The vast majority of people in the US aren't going to be driving a subcompact because it screams "cheap" (even if if really isn't). Big sedans, or medium sporty sedans, or AWD CUV of some kind have become the norm. It's telling that none of the major automakers have an EV that threatens their own bread/butter product lines. When Honda promotes an electric CR-V or GM promotes an electric Malibu, which are better than their ICE predecessors, that will be a signal that they are truly serious about EVs.

In any case, I will not as a matter of principle support any GM product while the company continues to attack Tesla via legislative means. This goes for car dealers too.

 

[jgs]

And the closest service center is where?

I'll answer my own question: "Even though Tesla doesn’t operate any store or service center in the state, the automaker reportedly already has over 400 customers. Tesla owners have to go to Chicago or Cleveland for service..."

Seriously, is that even realistic for anyone but the most devoted Elon-fan?

Speaking from experience, although it's admittedly not ideal in practice it's fine and will continue to be as long as Ranger service continues to be available at no charge for warranty issues or at a reasonable price for non-warranty. It's hard to see how they could scale that to Model 3 volumes, though.

Your earlier comment that GM is the only option in Michigan is incorrect of course, unless you want to fence it in with more qualifiers -- apart from Model S and Model X, I see quite a few i3s and tons of Leafs (Leaves?) on the road here, the odd MiEV, and there's even at least one brave Smart EV owner. That's just pure BEV of course, a decent number of PHEVs of various kinds.

 

[Jbailey]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/technology/how-did-gm-create-teslas-dream-car-first.html

Subscription possibly required.

Opinion piece with clear bias. For example:



Nearly responded on his Twitter, but couldn't get past all of the Trump links.

Man this rocks... I really hope this is built on the K car Chassis with "cab forward" ....lots and lots of cupholders please!

..man I cant wait! My grandmother is even more excited.

 

[Big Dog]

It's telling that none of the major automakers have an EV that threatens their own bread/butter product lines.

Not to me. The battery capacity is just not there yet to entice the masses. The Bolt is the first entree with extended range (other than Tesla).

When Honda promotes an electric CR-V or GM promotes an electric Malibu, which are better than their ICE predecessors, that will be a signal that they are truly serious about EVs.

See above.

Also, for the $$ investment, the major manufacturers are producing a 'world car'. As noted on the M3 thread, many of the Euros prefer a hatchback; the US prefers a sedan. (And quite frankly, the high price of gas in Europe makes that market more penetrable than the US.) The result is ugly (to me), utilitarian cars.

Your earlier comment that GM is the only option in Michigan is incorrect of course, unless you want to fence it in with more qualifiers.

yes, you are correct. My qualifier is extended range, since I don't see the any value in a Volt. (Why pay that much extra for what is essentially a Cruze?)

 

[gregd]

Ah fair enough. The biggest thing folks will have to be worried about? If the Bolt is a big hit, look for huge price markups with such limited availability...

Excellent point! This is why the anti-Tesla (dealer-only) laws are such a great protection for the consumer. Wait, what?