Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[Switzch]

Hi Everyone - The [email protected] email give a 5.1.2 bounce which means that the ont.ca domain is not setup or incorrect or down. Is this the correct email?

 

[Burlburt]

I wrote them with this email (taken and modified from previous posters)

To whom it concerns,

I am impacted by the Ontario Government decision to cancel the EHVIP program. I was given this email to contact;

As I am sure you are aware, the MTO recently cancelled the EHVIP program. My complaint is not that the program was cancelled, rather, how it was cancelled. This is because I have put down a non refundable $4200 deposit for a Tesla model 3 car AND have purchased and installed a charger at a cost of over $1000. Due the the wording of the EHVIP cancellation, I am currently not eligible for the EHVIP rebate even though consumers who purchased a car from a dealer (ford, gm, mercedez, bmw, ect) on the same day as me are still eligible until Sept 10th. From a consumer standpoint, I don't see the difference between ordering from a dealer vs. a manufacturer especially when buying a product in the online space.

Background: On July 11th, Premier Ford’s team announced the immediate cancellation of the program. The only way to still qualify for the rebate would be if one satisfied one of the following two conditions:

1) Eligible vehicles that have been delivered to consumers, registered, and plated on or before July 11 will receive the incentive.

2) Inventory that dealers have on lots or orders made by dealerships with manufacturers on or before July 11, will also be honoured for the incentive provided that the vehicle is delivered to consumers, registered, and plated by September 10.

Although this gives dealers a ‘wind-down’ period, it offers no such consideration to consumers like myself. I believe this was done specifically to target Tesla buyers as purchases are made on a website directly from the manufacturer. It should also be noted that Tesla does have 4 dealerships in Ontario and I have been charged a nominal dealer fee on my order deposit.

The $14k rebate is the difference between affordability and non-affordability. Many of us have ordered this car in good faith, placing a $4,200 non-refundable deposit. We now face a no-win scenario; either cancel our orders and lose $4,200 plus the cost of the charger and installation, or commit to buying a car that we can no longer afford.

All I am asking is that Premier Ford extend to us, his constituents, the same consideration he is offering to businesses (i.e. the dealers); honour those orders that were placed prior to July 11th providing the vehicle is delivered, registered, and plated by September 10th. As it stands, it seems as though Premier Ford is intentionally targeting Tesla, but is really only hurting his people.​

As per my reply to the next post, let's share with the Globe and Mail our approach to this issue. they should know the Ombudman office is investigating and would be interested in knowing letters like this thoughtful letter are continuing. The heat is NOT off this government on this issue. send to [email protected]

 

[Switzch]

As per my reply to the next post, let's share with the Globe and Mail our approach to this issue. they should know the Ombudman office is investigating and would be interested in knowing letters like this thoughtful letter are continuing. The heat is NOT off this government on this issue. send to [email protected]

I will share any responses with Greg. The CBC already interviewed me last week.

 

[Velianou]

Hi Everyone - The [email protected] email give a 5.1.2 bounce which means that the ont.ca domain is not setup or incorrect or down. Is this the correct email?

Shoot maybe [email protected]

sorry

 

[Switzch]

Shoot maybe [email protected]

That seems to have worked. Thanks!

 

[Burlburt]

Hi Everyone - The [email protected] email give a 5.1.2 bounce which means that the ont.ca domain is not setup or incorrect or down. Is this the correct email?

Suffix is probably ontario.ca not Ont

 

[Samina]

But you didn't order thru a Tesla dealer you ordered directly with Tesla. You may of used their computer but did not order from the Tesla dealer. The information from the government is very clear on this.

Adaptl what is it you can’t understand? The cancellation was done in an unfair manner ... period! No other argument necessary.

 

[ThiagoSnow]

I agree. The complete lack of communication from Tesla is extremely disappointing.

I dont think Tesla will do anything about it... the line up still huge. Elon is forcing his production line to 6000 Model 3s a week...

 

[Samina]

Hi

So I have also called a few lawyers to see if we can file for a judiciary review. As it would be filed as a class action, the process is a little different (vs. if one person was suing). I believe research has to be conducted before it can be confirmed if a class action is possible. I should hear back next week. Will keep you guys updated.

 

[dusdev]

I dont think Tesla will do anything about it... the line up still huge. Elon is forcing his production line to 6000 Model 3s a week...

They likely won't do anything about it. The complete lack of communication is extremely disappointing. In fact, a phone call or e-mail even explaining the situation and Tesla's position on the matter would be very welcome. I would say the complete lack of communication from Tesla is pushing me over the fence to the 'cancel' side. I got more service pre-sale from other car manufacturers where I paid less money for my prior ICE cars. They obviously wanted my business - it seems Tesla doesn't really care since the next customer in line will take up a slack. This is not a great feeling when paying $70,000 for a vehicle.

I guess being part of the Tesla family is getting used to being treated like crap? This situation is a good litmus test. Like seriously, what is up with their reservation system? You can't get a clear answer and you get a huge hand waving answer as to when your car *might* arrive (is it 1-3 months, 2-4 months, 3-6 months?). This is so awful from a planning perspective.

 

[Velianou]

Hi

So I have also called a few lawyers to see if we can file for a judiciary review. As it would be filed as a class action, the process is a little different (vs. if one person was suing). I believe research has to be conducted before it can be confirmed if a class action is possible. I should hear back next week. Will keep you guys updated.

The only issue with conducting a class action or single law suit is that you must prove you have damages.
For those of you that are going to continue with the purchase, you may be entitled to proceed with a class action. For those of us that will cancel or defer. We have no damages therefore we cannot be part of the law suit. Now if we lose our deposit then we can seek damages but for only the amount lost. opportunity costs are not damages. Good luck with the legal end of this but probably won't work.

Sorry

 

[adaptabl]

Adaptl what is it you can’t understand? The cancellation was done in an unfair manner ... period! No other argument necessary.

The extension was designed to protect Ontario dealers with stock in transit (It was not to protect consumers with existing orders). This is not the case with Tesla dealers as they did not order cars for customers. There is no economic risk to the Tesla dealers as there is for traditional dealers with cars in transit.

Maybe they should of just cancelled it for everyone as of July 11th period? I think they did a wise compromise.

Although I disagree with the cancellation of the program there will always be those that miss out on the program as it winds down. Tesla has offered full refunds so there is not economic loss to consumers with Tesla's on order.

There were those with SR non PUP model 3's on order from day one and had deposits for years. They too will miss out on the program. Someone is always just past the end.

I wouldn't count on the Liberals doing anything federally until 2020. Things are not looking good for the Liberal's re-election federally next fall. Although it is not true, public perception is that Tesla buyers are elite 1%er's. Pushing EV credits now is not a politically wise decision at this time if you have hopes of re-election. I would not want to be an Ontario MP running next fall an the headlines are that Ottawa fights Ontario in court to increase gas prices to give rebates to rich Ontario buyers. You know how the fake news agencies spin things to get reader clicks.

 

[Velianou]

The extension was designed to protect Ontario dealers with stock in transit (It was not to protect consumers with existing orders). This is not the case with Tesla dealers as they did not order cars for customers. There is no economic risk to the Tesla dealers as there is for traditional dealers with cars in transit.

Maybe they should of just cancelled it for everyone as of July 11th period? I think they did a wise compromise.

Although I disagree with the cancellation of the program there will always be those that miss out on the program as it winds down. Tesla has offered full refunds so there is not economic loss to consumers with Tesla's on order.

There were those with SR non PUP model 3's on order from day one and had deposits for years. They too will miss out on the program. Someone is always just past the end.

I wouldn't count on the Liberals doing anything federally until 2020. Things are not looking good for the Liberal's re-election federally next fall. Although it is not true, public perception is that Tesla buyers are elite 1%er's. Pushing EV credits now is not a politically wise decision at this time if you have hopes of re-election. I would not want to be an Ontario MP running next fall an the headlines are that Ottawa fights Ontario in court to increase gas prices to give rebates to rich Ontario buyers. You know how the fake news agencies spin things to get reader clicks.

The PC government has marketed themselves on a platform for the people. Ontario taxpayers. This decision is for the corporations and manufacturers who employ the people. They are in the same position as Tesla. They will be able to resell these products.. Wait lists are for all companies not just Tesla. They are not stuck with inventory. try finding a bolt or a leaf. The decision to eliminate it for Tesla only is a cop out, plain and simple. The people are the ones affected and they lied to us. I would not have purchased if not for the confirmation of "honoring all contracts" They should do the right thing and have ended for all on July 11th. but they didn't. They made a decision that segregated the Ontario taxpayer(consumer).Treat all Ontario Taxpayers the same.

 

[Tertulian]

The extension was designed to protect Ontario dealers with stock in transit (It was not to protect consumers with existing orders). This is not the case with Tesla dealers as they did not order cars for customers. There is no economic risk to the Tesla dealers as there is for traditional dealers with cars in transit.

Maybe they should of just cancelled it for everyone as of July 11th period? I think they did a wise compromise.

Although I disagree with the cancellation of the program there will always be those that miss out on the program as it winds down. Tesla has offered full refunds so there is not economic loss to consumers with Tesla's on order.

There were those with SR non PUP model 3's on order from day one and had deposits for years. They too will miss out on the program. Someone is always just past the end.

I wouldn't count on the Liberals doing anything federally until 2020. Things are not looking good for the Liberal's re-election federally next fall. Although it is not true, public perception is that Tesla buyers are elite 1%er's. Pushing EV credits now is not a politically wise decision at this time if you have hopes of re-election. I would not want to be an Ontario MP running next fall an the headlines are that Ottawa fights Ontario in court to increase gas prices to give rebates to rich Ontario buyers. You know how the fake news agencies spin things to get reader clicks.

...so the govt did this to protect dealers from taking losses. Got it. And what about the losses suffered by consumers?

You might argue that since Tesla is allowing refunds that we would suffer no losses. This is likely true (Tesla IS going through a cash crunch though, and they are not OBLIGATED to give us back one dime). However, it misses the point that it was NEVER Tesla’s responsibility to help mitigate our losses that would have resulted from the govt decision to wind down the program in this way.

THIS is what is unfair - we were left to twist in the end and suffer our losses while the dealers were protected. Tesla’s response is irrelevant.

 

[Techniques]

The extension was designed to protect Ontario dealers with stock in transit (It was not to protect consumers with existing orders). This is not the case with Tesla dealers as they did not order cars for customers. There is no economic risk to the Tesla dealers as there is for traditional dealers with cars in transit.

Maybe they should of just cancelled it for everyone as of July 11th period? I think they did a wise compromise.

Although I disagree with the cancellation of the program there will always be those that miss out on the program as it winds down. Tesla has offered full refunds so there is not economic loss to consumers with Tesla's on order.

There were those with SR non PUP model 3's on order from day one and had deposits for years. They too will miss out on the program. Someone is always just past the end.

I wouldn't count on the Liberals doing anything federally until 2020. Things are not looking good for the Liberal's re-election federally next fall. Although it is not true, public perception is that Tesla buyers are elite 1%er's. Pushing EV credits now is not a politically wise decision at this time if you have hopes of re-election. I would not want to be an Ontario MP running next fall an the headlines are that Ottawa fights Ontario in court to increase gas prices to give rebates to rich Ontario buyers. You know how the fake news agencies spin things to get reader clicks.

Ok...I would think you know the “Lower Gas prices by 10cents” line was just that...a line?
I have been driving long enough in Ontario to know that as soon as gas goes down 10 cents, within a week or 2 it will slowly recondition itself back to current posted prices, then ultimately higher than where we are today. The explanation will be that “Well remember without scraping the Carbon tax, you would be paying 10cents per litre more!” Yeaaahhh buddy.

Gas companies have been playing this price fixing game way to long to give us a “break” and have played buddy ford like a fiddle.

“Save Ontarians 10 cents a litre at the pumps...” this is the true definition of fake news.

 

[adaptabl]

Ok...I would think you know the “Lower Gas prices by 10cents” line was just that...a line?
I have been driving long enough in Ontario to know that as soon as gas goes down 10 cents, within a week or 2 it will slowly recondition itself back to current posted prices, then ultimately higher than where we are today. The explanation will be that “Well remember without scraping the Carbon tax, you would be paying 10cents per liter more!” Yeaaahhh buddy.

Gas companies have been playing this price fixing game way to long to give us a “break” and have played buddy ford like a fiddle.

I totally agree. We as consumers always get the short end of the stick.

 

[adaptabl]

...so the govt did this to protect dealers from taking losses. Got it. And what about the losses suffered by consumers?

You might argue that since Tesla is allowing refunds that we would suffer no losses. This is likely true (Tesla IS going through a cash crunch though, and they are not OBLIGATED to give us back one dime). However, it misses the point that it was NEVER Tesla’s responsibility to help mitigate our losses that would have resulted from the govt decision to wind down the program in this way.

THIS is what is unfair - we were left to twist in the end and suffer our losses while the dealers were protected. Tesla’s response is irrelevant.

The extension was not to protect consumers.

Those who did place orders were fully aware the program could be cancelled at any time. If not, they should of read all the details of the program before ordering. At some point the consumer has to take responsibility for their actions. In the case Tesla is doing the right thing and allowing all orders to be cancelled. It most cases no VIN was assigned so the buyer always had the option to cancel as soon as the program cancelation was announced on July 11th. AWD models were never part of the program so no buyer should of expected a rebate on those models.

 

[Burlburt]

Adaptl what is it you can’t understand? The cancellation was done in an unfair manner ... period! No other argument necessary.

The extension was not to protect consumers.

Those who did place orders were fully aware the program could be cancelled at any time. If not, they should of read all the details of the program before ordering. At some point the consumer has to take responsibility for their actions. In the case Tesla is doing the right thing and allowing all orders to be cancelled. It most cases no VIN was assigned so the buyer always had the option to cancel as soon as the program cancelation was announced on July 11th. AWD models were never part of the program so no buyer should of expected a rebate on those models.

in some cases VIN was assigned

 

[Ludatik]

I just spoke to the Ombudsman's office after a couple days of phone tag. Nothing really new to report - similar conversation as to what others had. He asked me what efforts I had made to date towards a resolution. It sounds like the Ombudsman office has already started their inquiries as he was quite aware of the entire situation, the fairness issue, and the time sensitivity. He says he will contact me when he has answers. I'm not feeling hopeful.

 

[sitter_k]

But you didn't order thru a Tesla dealer you ordered directly with Tesla. You may of used their computer but did not order from the Tesla dealer. The information from the government is very clear on this.

Yup very true. What the ombudsman is looking into is the information from the government and why.