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I’ve been a defender of Phantom Braking and how it’s ‘all part of the ‘plan’ for some time now, both on here and also at my girlfriend as she shrieks beside me. But even I have to concede that it’s spoiling my driving experience now. Last week, somewhere on the M6 north of Stoke, I experienced a totally unnecessary PB incident of a magnitude I’ve never experienced before. Despite having owned the car 12months/13k miles with much motorway cruising on AP, having mastered the accelerator-hover at key times and thinking I’m all over it as a beta tester for the milk float of the future, the severity of the braking was a whole new level. It was like I’d just landed a jet on the deck of an aircraft carrier and it genuinely scared the cr@p out of me so much I stopped at the next available services. If that had been my first instance of it, it would have probably left me seriously considering my investment.

Lately, lots of the car’s unique features seem to have entered a phase where you feel like you’ve strayed off a sunny footpath to find yourself in a misty peat-covered bog as the light fails and you’ve lost all sense of direction. Despite considering myself tech-minded, some simple stuff such as APs behaviour on activation just has me confused because I thought I had it’s slightly quirky attributes nailed but it’s now gone uber quirky amd I can’t remember where I came from never mind where I actually am. All that poking different speed bits on the screen used to make sense if I read up/thought about it but I'm no longer sure where I’ve come from operationally, never mind where I actually am when it comes to the simple stuff gleaned from my 40yrs of driving. It’s like that mystical period when iCloud went from a behind the scenes silent backup to trying to be Dropbox and Google Drive instead and you had no idea what might happen or why if you do something that used to make sense. When explaining something like TACC/AP operation and functions to a new owner starts to become difficult because you’re not exactly sure how it works yourself, I think it may be time to re-draw the starting point for some of the functionality.

I had to relocate my 13 tonne Motorhome a good distance a couple of weeks ago and was apprehensive that the lack of driver aids and old fashioned on/off vanilla cruise control might catch me out after so much cosseted Model 3 driving and little pandemi-motorhome use (thank you COVID-19) but in many respects, it was relaxing and refreshing to just drive the thing. When the features become a worry rather than a joy, you have to hope for the joy to be re-instated in a future update.
 
>>Both are driver aids. They are not autonomous driving. The driver is very much in control as and when needed - such as to override phantom brake events.<<

The driver is NOT in control - he is monitoring. There's a very big difference
Monitoring, especially for long periods, leads to big increases in response times when the unexpected occurs. During that reponse delay the car is most definitely in control. When control is taken over by the "driver" he/she is well behind the curve.
 
Some of these braking events appear to me to be an interaction between AP and Automatic Emergency Braking. AEB can, in theory, occur at anytime without TACC or AP being active but perhaps its level of sensitivity is ramped up when in those modes. I can understand the moderate braking or slowing down to allow a greater margin of safety when on AP but the events described above where the car stands on its brakes appear to be into the emergency category. Unexpected full-on inappropriate emergency braking seems to be much less reported in general driving.
 
The other mis-spelling that seems to occur a lot in this forum is the mis-spelling of descent as decent.

mae-west-18.jpg

;)
 
I’ve only ever used TACC/AP on motorways - the sort of road it’s designed for. I stopped using it for two reasons.

Firstly because I experienced several episodes of severe phantom braking that were downright dangerous, slamming on the brakes as I pulled out into lane 3 as if I was doing an emergency stop. I really don’t know how I avoided being rear ended. It’s absolutely pointless to say the vehicle behind must have been too close - that’s the way people drive. At 70mph on the motorway how many people “keep apart 2 chevrons” as the signs demand?

Secondly, using TACC/AP makes me very tense. If it worked as designed it should make motorway driving much more relaxing. In reality I have my foot hovering over the accelerator ready to intervene in a split second. It’s so different from looking ahead and seeing something (slowing traffic/queuing traffic/idiot pulling out too close) that needs driver input. Phantom braking happens for no discernible reason so can’t be predicted. Being constantly prepared for it is draining.

it still amazes me that Tesla implement this so badly when other manufacturers have systems that just work. I won’t be using it while it’s still so unfit for purpose.
 
And as an autosteer if this is about to descend down the rabbit hole of Automatic Emergency Braking, there is also Recent incidence of Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) [not TACC/AP phantom braking] to discuss AEB :rolleyes:

VA, I did pop over and check out the other thread to try and stay organised but since my experiences have been at 70mph on autopilot, not in city traffic just driving, I left it here. I see why you’re trying to do to keep it relevant as a reference point in a scientific fashion but I elected to comment here.

maybe we just amalgamate them all under the banner of PSVIB (pointless sudden very irritating braking) and be done with it! The best way to make admin duties easier would be for Tesla to fix the problem then we wouldn’t make your life hard by talking about it! :)
 
And as an autosteer if this is about to descend down the rabbit hole of Automatic Emergency Braking, there is also Recent incidence of Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) [not TACC/AP phantom braking] to discuss AEB :rolleyes:

Funny you should mention that as my car had a flutter a few days ago when driving in human control at about 30mph down a road with a high wall to my left that was close to the road and a large agricultural (I think sprayer) passed going the other way.

It didn't brake but reduced power for a short time (blip). I guess the close proximity of the wall and oncoming vehicle was picked up by the radar but didn't pin my head to the windscreen as the much discussed "phantom braking" was wont to do.