Autopilot is getting worse, not better.

[Battpower]

FSD does not work well in the US, and Musk has indicated that it cannot work with HW3 or HW4

And past performance is no indication of future performance, especially with Tesla software! Not sure I could agree with an unqualified 'cannot work on HW4', but seems that everything that has happened so far in Tesla's FSD realm has really just identified a likely picture of just what a huge challenge FSD represents, especially given the way Tesla have approached it. Until native HW4 code and data is in public use, we have no idea if that will just carry on evolving from the current HW3 emulation performance or if it will be another start over.

I have no first hand real world experience of training NN's, but it seems to me that training done on low res vision could be pretty much useless when you switch to higher resolution. Compare to people with life long vision impairment where they devise different ways of identifying what they 'see' to work around their impairment. If all you have had is a certain (compromised) view of the world, a sudden switch to high res could be very confusing!

Now they should have no excuses for cameras that don't have complete views at junctions, underestimating variations in road layouts and marking conventions, understanding the huge range of climatic conditions outside SoCal, or making a simple task almost impossible through fixation with one myopic approach to design (like Vision Only).

All the videos on YouTube suggest otherwise

I haven't noticed 'all videos' painting a similar picture. There are improvements apparently, but also regressions and I think the concensus is that while the current offering might still be merit worthy in some regards, it is no where near where it should be after this many iterations (especially given the commentary / predictions from the likes of EM).

 

[FastLaneJB]

I haven't noticed 'all videos' painting a similar picture. There are improvements apparently, but also regressions and I think the concensus is that while the current offering might still be merit worthy in some regards, it is no where near where it should be after this many iterations (especially given the commentary / predictions from the likes of EM).

It’s not finished of course but I think claiming that HW3 cannot deliver Auto steer on City Streets when it’s clearly already doing that. No one said it’ll be perfect but it hardly looks to be bad either.

HW4 will be better, HW5 better still of course but HW3 is enough to achieve what looks to be a good first shot at this to a level that people shouldn’t feel short changed if they have FSD in the US.

 

[Battpower]

when it’s clearly already doing that.

This is the sticking point. Is it? Some of the time? Some place? Some weather? In the opinion of all users? Except certain (fairly common) situations? To the satisfaction of an impartial independent assessor?

 

[FastLaneJB]

This is the sticking point. Is it? Some of the time? Some place? Some weather? In the opinion of all users? Except certain (fairly common) situations? To the satisfaction of an impartial independent assessor?

Obviously different people have different opinions on this but it’s level 2 and it aids you. It’s good enough they’ve felt they can take beta out of the name now.

I don’t see it as any different to things like ChatGPT, those are shipping and are very helpful in general but will also tell you some complete bollocks sometimes. Doesn’t mean it isn’t helpful, it’s just not perfect.

Lane keeping assist, emergency braking, etc, etc. we all know these get it wrong sometimes and lots of people complaining but I bet they’ve also stopped some accidents. I had night vision on my 7 series and for the most part thought it was somewhat pointless. It would flash its lights at pedestrians all around my village as you drop past with them wondering why the hell I was flashing them. However one time some drunk guy, dressed in black was walking down a 60 mile per hour country lane and it highlighted him with plenty of warning, maybe saving me from mowing him down. They aid us, they don’t yet replace us.

If you want perfect, none of us are going to live long enough for that.

 

[parsec]

It’s good enough they’ve felt they can take beta out of the name now.

It is safe to assume that the swapping in of "Supervised" where "Beta" had been is to make investors believe that progress is being made, and to deceive them into believing that Tesla has some special sauce that the other auto manufacturers lack. People could be deceived into thinking that Tesla is close to Level 5 (because of the misleading name (which should be Partial Self Driving or Intermittent Self Driving or even Supervised Self Driving or Almost Blue Cruise... but not Full Self Driving -- which is what level 5 means.) But, in fact, others are ahead of Tesla, in part because their sensor suites are far more appropriate. Is it the Mercedes that has 13 cameras, plus lidar and radar? The Mercedes also uses gps accurate to one centimeter. (The Tesla GPS appears to be less accurate than that in a typical cell phone.)

Here in the US, FSDS still appears to be beta or late alpha*. There are clearly known bugs such as phantom braking, failure to "see" other vehicles, etc. Once there are no known bugs, then the beta designation would no longer be appropriate. 2034?

Everyone agrees, I think, that a great deal of machine learning remains to be accomplished before FSD lives up to its name. That learning process looks a lot like the beta stage of an algorithmic system.


* (In the US, the Tesla auto wiper mode is called beta, but is really alpha. It is just a malfunctioning prototype of a real system devoid of the hardware that could make it work.)

 

[Transformer]

I thought "Supervised" came out of negotiating with NHTSA about driver responsibilities.

In industry terms, "alpha" means internal-company testing and "beta" means external testing, but the terms do get misused to fit different notions of alpha-test-ready and beta-test-ready.

 

[FastLaneJB]

It is safe to assume that the swapping in of "Supervised" where "Beta" had been is to make investors believe that progress is being made, and to deceive them into believing that Tesla has some special sauce that the other auto manufacturers lack. People could be deceived into thinking that Tesla is close to Level 5 (because of the misleading name (which should be Partial Self Driving or Intermittent Self Driving or even Supervised Self Driving or Almost Blue Cruise... but not Full Self Driving -- which is what level 5 means.) But, in fact, others are ahead of Tesla, in part because their sensor suites are far more appropriate. Is it the Mercedes that has 13 cameras, plus lidar and radar? The Mercedes also uses gps accurate to one centimeter. (The Tesla GPS appears to be less accurate than that in a typical cell phone.)

Here in the US, FSDS still appears to be beta or late alpha*. There are clearly known bugs such as phantom braking, failure to "see" other vehicles, etc. Once there are no known bugs, then the beta designation would no longer be appropriate. 2034?

Everyone agrees, I think, that a great deal of machine learning remains to be accomplished before FSD lives up to its name. That learning process looks a lot like the beta stage of an algorithmic system.


* (In the US, the Tesla auto wiper mode is called beta, but is really alpha. It is just a malfunctioning prototype of a real system devoid of the hardware that could make it work.)

I’ve seen a video comparing Mercedes to Tesla and the Mercedes was awful in comparison. All it’s good for is highway driving.

As far as I’m concerned, Tesla is far ahead of others when it comes to this. It’s just not level 5 that you keep going on about.

 

[speedyranger74]

At least in should be called: FSD BS

 

[Battpower]

I haven't been digging around other regions' threads recently and completely missed this. I'm not sure what to think!

Tesla Model Y HW4 Infotainment System Has Half the RAM and Storage of an HW3 Unit

Tesla implemented more cost-cutting measures with the Hardware 4 computer on the Model Y, as teardown reveals it has half the RAM and memory capacity

www.autoevolution.com

I haven't searched to find out if there are now multiple spec's of HW. If so, that could get very confusing.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I haven't been digging around other regions' threads recently and completely missed this. I'm not sure what to think!

Tesla Model Y HW4 Infotainment System Has Half the RAM and Storage of an HW3 Unit

Tesla implemented more cost-cutting measures with the Hardware 4 computer on the Model Y, as teardown reveals it has half the RAM and memory capacity

www.autoevolution.com

I haven't searched to find out if there are now multiple spec's of HW. If so, that could get very confusing.

That's the infotainment computer and not the autopilot computer. It clearly doesn't make any difference and they probably over specified the sizing on older cars as didn't quite know what they needed. I mean Apple still ships laptops with 8GB RAM so seems they've decided it's enough for the car.

Storage drop means less room for games basically as that's probably what they were using it for but suspect they still have a reasonable amount of space for that as long as they don't over-do it with games with tons of graphics assets.

 

[Battpower]

That's the infotainment computer and not the autopilot computer. It clearly doesn't make any difference and they probably over specified the sizing on older cars as didn't quite know what they needed. I mean Apple still ships laptops with 8GB RAM so seems they've decided it's enough for the car.

Storage drop means less room for games basically as that's probably what they were using it for but suspect they still have a reasonable amount of space for that as long as they don't over-do it with games with tons of graphics assets.

Ah. I didn't read too closely. Just saw reference to HW4 etc.

Also referred to Ram for staging updates.

So in my book, infotainment is MCU x and driving etc is HW x. Is that not the case?