Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
And yet Android has ~80% market share... ;) "First mover advantage" isn't often what it's cracked up to be.

Ah, but Apple, the first mover in the modern smartphone era, has 87% of the profits. Incredible that they have almost all the profit from the market with only about 18% market share. Seemingly analogous situation shaping up for Tesla? They have such a head start on basically defining the entire competitive arena that everyone else is just a contender, even if they do catch up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: more863-also
It's a pity that the cool design of the Mission-E is completely lost in the production version. All the bold lines and curves has disappeared. It looks just like a Panamera. No wonder why Porsche still uses the Mission-E prototype in their advertising and press releases...

challenge.png
 
He also said they have 11 deposits already, which he seemed to think was a lot, but only works out to a paltry 2k deposits nationwide. almost everyone I talked to at the dealer was still calling it the Mission E, not the Taycan. I'm not sure if this is because they think the Taycan is a stupid name, or if they just haven't heard that that is the official name yet.

There are ~190 dealerships in US, Doubt that any will receive more than 10 Taycan's in the first year. I put my name at one of the Minneapolis dealers and was 16th one year ago. That would put me in line for a car in late 2020 - just about the time my current lease expires. At that time, we will also have the refreshed model S, so will see which is more compelling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ACA Man
There are ~190 dealerships in US, Doubt that any will receive more than 10 Taycan's in the first year. I put my name at one of the Minneapolis dealers and was 16th one year ago. That would put me in line for a car in late 2020 - just about the time my current lease expires. At that time, we will also have the refreshed model S, so will see which is more compelling.
Same here.
 
Ah, but Apple, the first mover in the modern smartphone era, has 87% of the profits. Incredible that they have almost all the profit from the market with only about 18% market share. Seemingly analogous situation shaping up for Tesla? They have such a head start on basically defining the entire competitive arena that everyone else is just a contender, even if they do catch up.

Comparisons between the car industry and computing industry are not perfect. Apple has always been a company focused on delivering both a hardware product as well as the OS running it. Back in the 80s, they had MacOS vs what was PC-DOS at the time. Microsoft balkanized the computer market by putting their own version of PC-DOS on the market called MS-DOS. Microsoft didn't really care what hardware their OS ran on, that was up to the manufacturer as long as the hardware met some criteria required by the OS to run (like the processor instruction set). Apple continued to tie their OS much more tightly to the hardware.

As a result, Microsoft ended up with close to 95% of the market share and Apple got by in single digits. When Apple introduced the iPhone, they again closely tied the OS to the hardware and sold both together. Google came out with Android soon after and took the Microsoft model. They made the OS, but any hardware maker could use it on their own phone. As a result, almost every phone maker but Apple uses Android and Android has a larger market share.

Apple has also always been more expensive than the competition's products. To their credit, Apple's products are well made. When they allowed Windows to run on their Mac computers, Macbook sales went up with many of the new users running Windows full time on the Apple hardware because Apple laptops were mechanically more reliable than anything else on the market.

Tesla is sort of like Apple in some ways. Tesla did go their own way with charging standards and their cars do cost more. But from what Elon has said, Tesla's goal is to sell mid-priced cars to the center of the market and maybe even have some inexpensive choices. They started as a premium brand because that was the best strategy to get into the market. They don't intend to remain only a premium brand.

And while Tesla has its own charging standard, they are very open to anyone else using it as long as they pay their share of supercharging use. Tesla has been made more exclusive by the rest of the car industry rejecting them, though they are deliberately exclusive in some other ways.

So the analogies between computing and cars starts to break down. Tesla has no plans to stay exclusive like Apple did, so they will probably gain a fairly decent chunk of market share down the line. How big it will be depends on how well the competition responds. If the fast, long range charging network does not improve dramatically in the next few years and nobody comes out with a reasonably priced 300+ mile EV soon, Tesla will dominate the EV market for a decade or more. So far the competition's offerings are getting better, but they still fall short of Tesla in key areas.

The Taycan is another example. It will only be available in small numbers (for at least a while), it will have poor range, poor cargo capacity, and will probably be paltry performer compared to the Roadster 2020. It may have better reliability, but we'll see. Tesla also knows how to support EVs and Porsche dealers probably won't know what to do with their Taycans.
 
It's a pity that the cool design of the Mission-E is completely lost in the production version. All the bold lines and curves has disappeared. It looks just like a Panamera. No wonder why Porsche still uses the Mission-E prototype in their advertising and press releases...

View attachment 347289
And another comparison from the side
View attachment 347290

The production version is really disappointing compared to the concept... almost false advertising. :cool:
 
VW group including Porsche now has bigger problems to worry about. German Automakers Act Like Tesla And EV Transition Is A Surprise
“The whole frame of the car is different when you move from gasoline to electric,” says Sven Dharmani, global auto supply chain leader at EY. “Entire plants are going to become obsolete. The companies that make pistons and crankshafts are not going to provide the battery.”

In fact, “The threats facing the German car industry could be existential, according to Herbert Diess, chief executive of Volkswagen.” Deiss told German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung, “Such an industry can crash faster than many people realize… I see our chances of keeping the lead position at 50:50.”



 
  • Informative
Reactions: wdolson
I contacted my local Porsche dealer in an attempt to put a deposit down on the car and it was an eye opening experience. First they shuffled me around between 4 different people before one could even answer basic questions. The guy I finally got who knew anything about it said that they would be getting first deliveries in May 2019. Considering everything else says deliveries won't start till late 2019, either he knows something the rest of the internet doesn't, or he just doesn't have a clue.

He also said they have 11 deposits already, which he seemed to think was a lot, but only works out to a paltry 2k deposits nationwide. almost everyone I talked to at the dealer was still calling it the Mission E, not the Taycan. I'm not sure if this is because they think the Taycan is a stupid name, or if they just haven't heard that that is the official name yet.

Either way I opted not to put down a deposit, with such low demand I imagine if I want one and am willing to deal with going back to a regular awful dealer after enjoying the Tesla sales experience it won't be a long wait anyway.
There's no way in hell the car is coming out in May 2019. We would have seen a production model by now. My dealer told me I was number 40 something. He also mentioned the car will likely arrive late 2019.

I'm not sure why you believe there is low demand for the car? I'm sure if Porsche manages to deliver the specs they are touting and have the final production model looking fairly good (on par with other Porsche models), that interest will be pretty high from consumers.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: FlatSix911
Looking at the photos of the Mission E vs the Taycan, either Porsche has lost the plot or that 'Taycan' is a 'disguised' Panamera based test mule.

In which case Porsche are far further from releasing the production Taycan (ToyCan) than we suspect.

If the production Taycan does not (closely) resemble the Mission E concept, then it is a crying shame because the concept is pretty special but the Panamera is not...………..visually.

Tesla's open goal just got wider!
 
It's a pity that the cool design of the Mission-E is completely lost in the production version. All the bold lines and curves has disappeared. It looks just like a Panamera. No wonder why Porsche still uses the Mission-E prototype in their advertising and press releases...

View attachment 347289

One major difference seems to be around the light cluster. In the spyshot, it seems that both headlamps and upper vents seem to be covered by a temporary piece of camo, and the shape of the actual LEDs are very close to the concept:

PME.JPG


Remember, this mule is also driving around with fake exhaust pipes :)
 
One major difference seems to be around the light cluster. In the spyshot, it seems that both headlamps and upper vents seem to be covered by a temporary piece of camo, and the shape of the actual LEDs are very close to the concept:

View attachment 348017

Remember, this mule is also driving around with fake exhaust pipes :)
One major difference seems to be around the light cluster. In the spyshot, it seems that both headlamps and upper vents seem to be covered by a temporary piece of camo, and the shape of the actual LEDs are very close to the concept:

View attachment 348017

Remember, this mule is also driving around with fake exhaust pipes :)
Hmmm...good catch. Looking at mule, the way that vent running along the side of the headlight gets cut off abruptly does seem to indicate it's being masked by something. At first glance, I thought they decided to change the shape of the headlight to fit more in line with their other cars. But you might be right and it could end up looking more like the concept car's headlight. They did, however, tone down the aggressive shape of the concept car. I guess that's to be expected. It looks less like an exotic car and more like a regular sedan now :D


taycan.jpg
 
Last edited:
I think this is the first video showing a Taycan or Cross Turismo charging in public at “800V”. I just posted a brief article about it to my website.

Has anyone seen a video showing a Porsche prototype charging at “800V” like this before?

View attachment 350623

First seen: new video shows Porsche Cross Turismo prototype charging at 245 kW

Interesting to note the photo was taken at the start of charging... I wonder how long before the charger ramps down? :cool:

The charger display shows the battery being 26 percent full as it soaks up 315A at 778V.
The image capture takes place 35 seconds after charging had begun.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeff N
Interesting to note the photo was taken at the start of charging... I wonder how long before the charger ramps down? :cool:

The charger display shows the battery being 26 percent full as it soaks up 315A at 778V.
The image capture takes place 35 seconds after charging had begun.
on the other hand charge rate even should slightly increase till SOC ~<50%, but yes if someone imagined near 350kW it's their problem
 
  • Funny
Reactions: FlatSix911