Price drop on car - Resetting the price on FSD - Anyone else feeling this is highly disingenuous on Tesla's part?

[EV forever]

We have to date owned 3 Tesla's and are in the process of getting ready for delivery for a new Model X. All our previous cars to date have FSD and we have been firm Tesla believers and supporters since 2013. We have paid for FSD for every car, simply because we believe in Tesla and wanted to support the technology - even though we understand even from our own experience that true autonomy is still a few years out. However, current experience dealing with Tesla is leaving us with a bad taste sufficient for us to consider canceling the order at this point.

For the Model X - the order was placed in August 2022 - when the FSD price was 12,000, well before the price increase to 15,000. We have several upgrades in the car, such as paint, white seats etc. making it quite an expensive car. We were quite happy that Tesla dropped prices on the cars, although for the Model X the price drop was really not that significant. This morning we were told to get ready for delivery - that's when we logged in to our account and realized that while the price of the car dropped by ~ 3000, the price for FSD was now 15,000.

We understand Elon's argument that buyers are not expected to write Tesla a check when price goes up after purchase, so buyers should not expect a refund when price goes down later. However, it seems totally inappropriate to apply this argument to FSD pricing. We specifically placed the order in August to lock in the FSD price. It seems highly disingenuous now to increase it to 15,000 claiming that all pricing was reset when the price drops occurred in January. In our minds, we have always considered software pricing to be sperate from pricing for all the other various upgrades and the car price.

For a car that is costing us close to 150K, it may seem that arguing over 3K is pitiful. However, we are now considering that it may be more beneficial to us to cancel the order completely - all we lose is the tiny deposit amount. All indications are that Model X are not selling fast and inventory is building up. If we are paying full price for FSD anyways, we could just wait a few more months and order again later. It is possible there is another price adjustment and there may be more information on HW4 by then.

It is just unfortunate that shenanigans like this are leading us to reconsider when we are ready to take delivery of the car in February. In future, we are also considering paying for monthly subscription for FSD vs paying 15K upfront. We recently sold our 3 year-old Model Y to make room for the Model X - the FSD has zero value when the car is sold, so why bother paying for it upfront?

Has anyone tried to address this with Tesla? Has there been any success in getting the August price for FSD?

 

[whisperingshad]

Just cancel FSD if they don't want to honor.

 

[E90alex]

Aren’t you still paying less overall for the vehicle with the price drop even though FSD is more?

Just remove FSD completely and pay for the subscription. Unless you plan to keep the car for more than 6 years, the subscription is cheaper.

And if you’re considering FSD you’re unlikely to keep the car that long anyways because the hardware will continue to improve and you’ll need to buy a new car for full FSD functionality. It’s a constant moving target with Tesla and FSD might be up to HW 5 or beyond in 6 years time.

 

[BobbyTables]

I'd wait for more clarity on HW4. Unless you need the X now, it seems probable that the next version of the sensors will be in production cars within 6 months. I wouldn't want a brand new 150k car with with 15k spent on an orphaned version of "FSD."

 

[TesslaBull]

I'd at least cancel the FSD as well. $15k for something that doesn't even work is absurd considering you can buy a pretty nice used *complete car* for that price.

 

[AS9.9.]

It is ridiculous that they are charging $12K in the first place for beta software that doesn't function, but to up the price after a deposit has been put down is truly insane. Your frustration is understood, and if I was in your position I would talk my nearest delivery center and tell them straight up you are going to cancel your $150K car if they aren't going to be sensible people (not that they care, but worth a shot if you find the one employee with braincells).

Personally, I couldn't even get Tesla to explain to me why they were charging me hundreds of dollars more for registration fees (that I already paid before delivery) AFTER I picked up my car. They couldn't tell me what it was for at all, and then months later they mailed me a refund check. It seems they just follow everything by the book and have no ability to take action case-by-case. Good luck!

 

[JulienW]

Do some math vs subscription. 15000/200=75 and 75/12=6.25.

You will need to keep for 6.25 years to pay the same. The trade in value for FSD is about $2k so even including that you are looking at 5½ years ownership to break even. And this assumes you don't finance and pay interest ANY of the FSD.

Doesn't sound like you will keep for 5½ years so the monthly subscription would be a better value.

 

[TresLA]

Your frustrations are understandable. But I also see reasons to stick with it as well. We are also believers although we’ve never thought FSD would be achievable anytime soon. To each their own. A note about the subscription though: the monthly price will almost definitely increase at some point, so we can’t accurately predict how many years of subscription is equivalent to upfront purchase of the package.

Also, it’s not so much Tesla shenanigans as it is inaccurate expectations (whether Tesla our customers) or when full autonomy is achieved. Tesla (and other AV companies) may have engineers with more current understanding, but they can’t predict the future anymore than the rest of us. We are all shooting in the dark when it comes to predicting the future but somehow our society has come to demand certainty from others one moment, and swung to the other extreme of rebelling against authority figures’ “incompetence” the next moment.

One way I do think Tesla could do better is to at least value FSD Capability package purchase by half or some other depreciated value over time during trade ins and used car market pricing.

 

[2101Guy]

There is an assumption in the math within this thread: that assumption is that the subscription rate will not increase over the next 6.25 years....

That said...I agree with others: drop that FSD from the purchase altogether.

 

[JimmyB]

Or just get EAP and keep the change?

 

[MP3Mike]

In our minds, we have always considered software pricing to be sperate from pricing for all the other various upgrades and the car price.

As far as I know, the only time Tesla has ever said that you were locking in the FSD price was on the original Cybertruck pre-order page.

Otherwise, it is just an option on the vehicle just like paint, wheels, interior color, etc. and its price changes when the overall price changes. (There have been cases in the past where they let the FSD price ride when they lowered the base price of a vehicle, but it seems that they have stopped that.)

 

[archae86]

I'm surprised that the OP sees this, assuming FSD was opted in for the original purchase. In the last 12 months I've bought two new Teslas. I placed the order for a model Y including FSD a few days before the FSD price went up from $10K to $12K in January, and when I got surprised by an early delivery in March, the $10K price held.

I placed an order for a model 3 in June, without putting FSD on the order. I added FSD to the order in September, a few hours before the FSD price raise from $12K to $15K. When I took delivery in early November, the FSD $12K price held.

I don't know whether there is something different in OP's situation, or Tesla changed policy, or his case (or mine) was just a mistake.

 

[EV forever]

I'd at least cancel the FSD as well. $15k for something that doesn't even work is absurd considering you can buy a pretty nice used *complete car* for that price.

It is ridiculous that they are charging $12K in the first place for beta software that doesn't function, but to up the price after a deposit has been put down is truly insane. Your frustration is understood, and if I was in your position I would talk my nearest delivery center and tell them straight up you are going to cancel your $150K car if they aren't going to be sensible people (not that they care, but worth a shot if you find the one employee with braincells).

Personally, I couldn't even get Tesla to explain to me why they were charging me hundreds of dollars more for registration fees (that I already paid before delivery) AFTER I picked up my car. They couldn't tell me what it was for at all, and then months later they mailed me a refund check. It seems they just follow everything by the book and have no ability to take action case-by-case. Good luck!

In all honesty, we actually really like FSD - even though it is not perfect. Both me and my husband use it all the time on our current Model Y, even for the older Model 3 - we would use FSD very often in CA. We pretty much turn it on as soon as we leave our house and the car can take us all the way to our destinations with minimal interventions. Now the Model 3 has moved out of CA with our son, he tells us that the FSD doesn't work as well in the Midwest as it did in CA.

The pricing has increased a lot on FSD - from $8000 for the 2018 Model 3 to $15,000 now. Now it is getting to a point of being too expensive for the features it provides. We never had any concerns paying for it and considered it as our contribution to help Tesla solve the FSD for everyone. But the way it was done this time feels slimy - almost like dealing with an disgusting ICE dealer, which we definitely don't like.

We are planning to go to the Tesla showroom to try and talk to someone, but not expecting much to come out of it. Then we have to decide if we take delivery without FSD or cancel the entire order.

 

[MP3Mike]

I'm surprised that the OP sees this, assuming FSD was opted in for the original purchase. In the last 12 months I've bought two new Teslas. I placed the order for a model Y including FSD a few days before the FSD price went up from $10K to $12K in January, and when I got surprised by an early delivery in March, the $10K price held.

I placed an order for a model 3 in June, without putting FSD on the order. I added FSD to the order in September, a few hours before the FSD price raise from $12K to $15K. When I took delivery in early November, the FSD $12K price held.

I don't know whether there is something different in OP's situation, or Tesla changed policy, or his case (or mine) was just a mistake.

I think you are missing the whole point. It is about the vehicle price being dropped, triggering FSD to be re-priced as well as the car. In either of your cases did Tesla lower the price of the car after you placed the order?

 

[EV forever]

I'm surprised that the OP sees this, assuming FSD was opted in for the original purchase. In the last 12 months I've bought two new Teslas. I placed the order for a model Y including FSD a few days before the FSD price went up from $10K to $12K in January, and when I got surprised by an early delivery in March, the $10K price held.

I placed an order for a model 3 in June, without putting FSD on the order. I added FSD to the order in September, a few hours before the FSD price raise from $12K to $15K. When I took delivery in early November, the FSD $12K price held.

I don't know whether there is something different in OP's situation, or Tesla changed policy, or his case (or mine) was just a mistake.

Difference is that Tesla changed the base price on Model X (dropping it by ~ 3K) in Jan 2023. In doing so, they reset all the pricing for all upgrades and features to new pricing. In most cases, you would expect this to be lower as the price was dropped. However, during this time Tesla had increased the price on FSD. So in our case the price drop on base price and price increase on FSD is a wash.

Your examples are similar to our experience for Model Y last year - we ordered around the same time in August and took delivery in 4Q with the FSD price fixed at 12K. However, there was no change to base price of the car, so the FSD price was not reset.

 

[EV forever]

As far as I know, the only time Tesla has ever said that you were locking in the FSD price was on the original Cybertruck pre-order page.

Otherwise, it is just an option on the vehicle just like paint, wheels, interior color, etc. and its price changes when the overall price changes. (There have been cases in the past where they let the FSD price ride when they lowered the base price of a vehicle, but it seems that they have stopped that.)

I understand. Legally, it is correct that they never said that the FSD price was locked when we placed the order. It's just that when you hear the announcement that Tesla is dropping prices - you expect to see a drop in price of your order, not a balancing out saying base price dropped, but we increased price for the software - so you pay the same.

It is unfortunate that they have stopped honoring the FSD price when they lower the base price. It is a surefire way of losing goodwill of the customers, especially since FSD is pure profit and directly goes to their profit margin. Now we are reconsidering taking delivery and may delay to much later in the year.

 

[flar]

Difference is that Tesla changed the base price on Model X (dropping it by ~ 3K) in Jan 2023. In doing so, they reset all the pricing for all upgrades and features to new pricing. In most cases, you would expect this to be lower as the price was dropped. However, during this time Tesla had increased the price on FSD. So in our case the price drop on base price and price increase on FSD is a wash.

Your examples are similar to our experience for Model Y last year - we ordered around the same time in August and took delivery in 4Q with the FSD price fixed at 12K. However, there was no change to base price of the car, so the FSD price was not reset.

I'm curious, did they change your price without consulting you?

Typically in the past, when a new price schedule comes out you have the option to change to the new price schedule, but you switch the entire price list for the car to the new schedule, you don't get to pick and choose. And usually this is done at the request of the owner.

The old pricing that you ordered under included FSD at a particular price. The new car prices have a different price for FSD. You can't switch to the lower priced car but keep the FSD price from the earlier schedule - you either buy into the entire new price list or you keep the old price list.

In the past there were reasons not to switch to a new price schedule even though it had some things cheaper which is why they'd usually only do it on request. And the owners accepted having to pay more for the car or a feature to switch over. And there were attempts to buck this system - for instance when the non-performance 100Ds were first offered many customers wanted to switch to the 100D and keep features they had ordered or had previously been included (like transferrable FUSD), but Tesla was clear that if you want to switch to the new model, you must switch everything about your order.

So, if you requested the price of the car to be updated to the new price and they didn't explain that the price on everything would be reset if you did that, then they didn't communicate very well. But the standard business practice is that you can't mix and match prices between price lists even if your car hasn't entered production.

 

[Dewg]

I think you are missing the whole point. It is about the vehicle price being dropped, triggering FSD to be re-priced as well as the car. In either of your cases did Tesla lower the price of the car after you placed the order?

This. I'd have a conversation with your sales advisor. In the past, my friends that ordered their cars were locked into that pricing at the time the order was placed. FSD goes up in price, but they got it at the original price they locked in. This policy may have changed recently, but your sales advisor should be able to walk you through it.

You can demand the original locked in pricing for FSD and the price of the car.

 

[EV forever]

I'd wait for more clarity on HW4. Unless you need the X now, it seems probable that the next version of the sensors will be in production cars within 6 months. I wouldn't want a brand new 150k car with with 15k spent on an orphaned version of "FSD."

Now I wish we had not sold our old Model Y - didn't expect it to be sold so quickly. Trade-in offer from Tesla was much lower - so we advertised privately and the car sold in a week!

We could wait a few months - but 6 months may be hard. What's the estimate on HW4? Is it as long as 6-months?

 

[E90alex]

I don’t understand when you say the price of the vehicle was $3000 cheaper. The price drop on the X LR was $11,000 in January.