Rumour: Model 3/Y to lose stalks in 2023 model year

[MrBadger]

I hope someone will legislate to stop this preferential pricing for electricity, it should cost the same just like petrol and diesel does.

Absolutely. Long gone are the days of cash vs eg credit card differential pricing yet with EV charging having to look through the different aggregators pricing for that charge point seems to be yet another step needed before initiating a charge.

No idea how ‘plug and charge’ will work with best pricing if this differential pricing persists.

 

[NewbieT]

If you use a traditional fuel card you pay a different price at the pump so why not with RFID?

One of the great benefits of the current model is the ability to create competition for your custom. Join a scheme, have huge buying power, gain from block negotiated discounts, charge at almost any pump with the same RFID card (or in future plug & charge)? Err, yes please. Electroverse/Bonnet prove it works. Not a lot different to Clubcard/Nectar loyalty card discounts really. I’d rather the price was just cheaper but it’s a fact of life.

Please don’t ask for legislative change on my account.

 

[MrBadger]

If you use a traditional fuel card you pay a different price at the pump so why not with RFID?

But I don't have to login to visa website/app to find out how much they are going to charge for an item then compare with mastercards price as you have to do with the EV charger aggregators.

And when 'plug and charge' becomes more common, how do you know that when you plug in your car you are going to get the pricing you expect?

 

[Zilla91]

If you use a traditional fuel card you pay a different price at the pump so why not with RFID?

What is a fuel card? Where do you get them from? I've literally never come across one before

One of the great benefits of the current model is the ability to create competition for your custom.

No it's not, it's an excuse to rip people off. Why should I have to give up my personal data to not have to pay a premium for juice?

Electroverse/Bonnet prove it works.

Do they?

Not a lot different to Clubcard/Nectar loyalty card discounts really.

My mistake, didn't realise electricity was part of my grocery shop.

 

[ACarneiro]

My mistake, didn't realise electricity was part of my grocery shop.

He was talking about fuel discounts on Nectar or Clubcards. Surely you’ve come across those?
Those sort of incentives are also very prevalent in mainland Europe.

 

[Zilla91]

I have. Don't follow how that compares with how different EV charge providers currently operate.

Now tell me how Shell, BP or the like offer me discounts on fuel if I sign up for their app or pay a monthly subscription. Oh wait, they don't.

 

[ACarneiro]

I have. Don't follow how that compares with how different EV charge providers currently operate.

Now tell me how Shell, BP or the like offer me discounts on fuel if I sign up for their app or pay a monthly subscription. Oh wait, they don't.

I believe the point is that there is precedent for different pricing for fuel if you’re a part of an organisation or if you have loyalty cards.

 

[MrBadger]

I believe the point is that there is precedent for different pricing for fuel if you’re a part of an organisation or if you have loyalty cards.

That’s quite different to what EV charge pricing is though.

What you are suggesting is a retailer giving a discount if you use their payment method/loyalty card. There is a direct relationship between the retailer and the payment method/loyalty.

What we have with EV charging is quite different, and more closely resembles the long defunct differential pricing of cash vs credit card, where you use to might have got a different price if you paid cadh( cheaper) or credit card (surcharge).

A closer analogy is going into a shop, looking up on visas (or bank x) website/app to see how much something costs, then going same with Mastercard (or bank y). Then (probably) selecting the cheapest payment card to make the purchase. There is no direct relationship between vendor and method of payment other than some tentative agreement between vendor and any number of unrelated payment merchants. That is very different to using the vendors payment card/loyalty scheme.

In context of EV charge points, you turn up to a charge point and you have differential pricing between a whole host of payment methods or aggregators, not always obvious made worse by often lack of onsite signage or signal to access app/websites.

We are at the stage where we need something to tell us the cheapest charge point aggregator/payment method which imho should be at the charge point site. I can’t see how people think this acceptable, especially at sites that are dark/lack connectivity.

We need a comparethealligator.com to compare the EV charge aggregator prices!

 

[WannabeOwner]

comparethealligator.com

Domain is available

I'm thinking getting hold of the data is far too difficult, but if that's not the case it would be easy enough to build the site ...

 

[ACarneiro]

That’s quite different to what EV charge pricing is though.

What you are suggesting is a retailer giving a discount if you use their payment method/loyalty card. There is a direct relationship between the retailer and the payment method/loyalty.

What we have with EV charging is quite different, and more closely resembles the long defunct differential pricing of cash vs credit card, where you use to might have got a different price if you paid cadh( cheaper) or credit card (surcharge).

A closer analogy is going into a shop, looking up on visas (or bank x) website/app to see how much something costs, then going same with Mastercard (or bank y). Then (probably) selecting the cheapest payment card to make the purchase. There is no direct relationship between vendor and method of payment other than some tentative agreement between vendor and any number of unrelated payment merchants. That is very different to using the vendors payment card/loyalty scheme.

In context of EV charge points, you turn up to a charge point and you have differential pricing between a whole host of payment methods or aggregators, not always obvious made worse by often lack of onsite signage or signal to access app/websites.

We are at the stage where we need something to tell us the cheapest charge point aggregator/payment method which imho should be at the charge point site. I can’t see how people think this acceptable, especially at sites that are dark/lack connectivity.

We need a comparethealligator.com to compare the EV charge aggregator prices!

I’m not sure that I agree with you.
Operator X charging less if you join their network and charge at their charge points most certainly resembles a discount, not different prices for different payment methods (to me, anyway).
I agree, it’s not ideal for us as consumers but I don’t think it’s inherently wrong or immoral to do so.

Mind you, I very much suspect “plug and charge” will be the de facto standard in 10 years time, this mess will be consigned to the history books soon enough (hopefully).

 

[MrBadger]

Operator X charging less if you join their network and charge at their charge points most certainly resembles a discount, not different prices for different payment methods (to me, anyway).

Thats not what is being discussed though (I think as Octopus and erm, forgotten the other right now, bonnet?). Its not operator X charging to use their network via their methods of payments though.

Its Operator X charging different prices if you use bonnet to pay, or a different price if using octopus to pay, or different price to using using to shell card to pay etc etc. Hence the analogy with Visa and mastercard.

I guess maybe its like using a hotel booking service? If you use travago you get a different price if you use bookings.com, which is what the advert suggests I guess. But when needing to charge, you don't have the luxury, or with some sites, the information or time need to make that decision.

 

[ACarneiro]

Thats not what is being discussed though (I think as Octopus and erm, forgotten the other right now, bonnet?). Its not operator X charging to use their network via their methods of payments though.

Its Operator X charging different prices if you use bonnet to pay, or a different price if using octopus to pay, or different price to using using to shell card to pay etc etc. Hence the analogy with Visa and mastercard.

I’m gonna have to go back and re-read the thing, I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick here

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Mod comment:

Can we try and bring this back to indicators or let it die until we know more? There are some threads on Octopus energy, but I'm reluctant to move all the charging posts to that thread as that doesn;t feel right. I can't spot an obvious general charging discussion and differential pricing, but if thats a topic people want to discuss it would merit a thread of its own?

 

[randompixel]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671956437852110848

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671956459314376704

 

[Mrklaw]

they already have matrix LEDs on all trims. They just don’t utilise them.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

they already have matrix LEDs on all trims. They just don’t utilise them.

And HW4 is by definition new cameras (plus an upgraded processor)

So to recap based on what we know...


And on what we're guessing..

Tesla look like they're updating the car as we've seen a few leaked pictures which might or might not be it

 

[Mrklaw]

surely the camera on the existing car is high enough resolution for matrix LEDs? cars have had them for years with presumably pretty low res cameras to drive them? If matrix is HW4 only that’ll be a git

 

[MrBadger]

And on what we're guessing..

Hardly guessing when the info comes from sources within Tesla. “Based on conversations we've now had with at least a dozen employees across various roles within the company”

Not official, yes, but saying it’s guessing is clutching at straws.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Hardly guessing when the info comes from sources within Tesla. “Based on conversations we've now had with at least a dozen employees across various roles within the company”

Not official, yes, but saying it’s guessing is clutching at straws.

Time will tell, but haven’t we been told lots of things over the years that turned out to have only a tiny element of truth with a lot of the gaps filled in by these sites incorrectly?

Steering by wire… fairly sure it’s not legal to only be steering by wire in many countries
RGB interior lights.. frankly if anyone gets excited by stuff other cars have had for years
Most extensive refresh… that’s purely subjective..
Looks more like the MS interior.. anyone think it wouldn’t follow the family progression?

What we don’t know…

- battery, probably just a tweak to the current design but nothing said
- motor changes, probably the same, the P models might get 2 of the 3 plaid motors
- range - no change, definitely kept below MS
- suspension differences - no real change, nothing adaptive
- seats - style make over but still no passenger lumbar support and not particularly different. Edit: just seen they now say this is going to happen to make them more comfortable.. have you ever seen a car company say they were changing seats to make them less comfortable, if if that’s how they actually end up?
- looks - you’ll only know the difference if you are well versed in the design of the headlights and rear bumper

- talk of removing more sensors and using gps more, assuming they’re mutually exclusive, what sensors are left? Get rid of the cabin temperature sensor and use the interior camera to gauge the aircon needs based on driver perspiration? (I wouldn’t actually put that past him).


Do I believe front bumper/headlight cameras? No, because why would you update the headlights on the MX to new matrix ones in the last few weeks, cars in HW4, and not do the same?

So what have we actually learnt?

I’ll give you two guesses I could claim..

New colours.. the new red and quicksilver from MY
New wheel designs

 

[Mrklaw]

seats we have leaks that strongly suggest ventilation at least.

do we have info if the S/X with HW4 have different matrix lights to the current 3/Y?