Have both the Tesla Chademo and the Sentec CCS adapter. Have used them on Electrify America. On S75D, S100D, X100D vehicles. Have seen 76KW throughput from the charger on the CCS adapter. Requires firmware v150 on the adapter. Many on YouTube seem to not have read the instructions that come with the unit. Also many YouTube videos seem to not understand that when starting to charge some power may be routed to condition the battery. This will show a difference between the charger output and what the car shows as being received. The gap is being used to cool or heat the battery.
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Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter
- Thread starter Boeingpilot
- Start date
Exelion
Member
Just came back from Greenlots.
Firmware v150 works!
So far:
EVGo. Works, used with v141. 47kW
EA(V). Works, used with v141. 50kW. Charger was stamped 150kW
Chargepoint. Works, used with v141. 47kW
Greenlots (BTCPower). Works, but only with v150. 45kW.
I haven’t revisited the EA(V) charger with v150 firmware to see if it can push out more kW’s yet.
I’m glad that Setec is actually consistently updating their firmware to get more stations working with the adapter.
Firmware v150 works!
So far:
EVGo. Works, used with v141. 47kW
EA(V). Works, used with v141. 50kW. Charger was stamped 150kW
Chargepoint. Works, used with v141. 47kW
Greenlots (BTCPower). Works, but only with v150. 45kW.
I haven’t revisited the EA(V) charger with v150 firmware to see if it can push out more kW’s yet.
I’m glad that Setec is actually consistently updating their firmware to get more stations working with the adapter.
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As a retired software developer, it doesn't surprise me that it is taking a while to find all the edge and corner cases with all the different CCS vendors and variations of their products in the wild. When the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter first came out, it needed numerous updates to become widely compatible as well. There are several older threads here on TMC dating from then which discuss it. I wasn't a Tesla owner at the time, so didn't have to live through it. (I still don't own a CHAdeMO adapter - though I've successfully used them several times.) No doubt Tesla will go through the same when they release their CCS1 adapter. Though they will have had the benefit of already supporting CCS2 in Europe for the past couple of years.
Assuming you have a Model 3 or Y, then regardless of whether the station can put out 150 kW the adapter is only going to deliver up to 50 kW because that's what the car asks for. Your car sees the Setec adapter as a CHAdeMO adapter, that's how it works, and the 3 & Y are programmed to only ask for up to 50 kW when "CHAdeMO charging". The S & X don't have this software limitation, and as a result they will charge up to about 80 kW on stations that can supply sufficient power. In those instances, the limitation is the adapter's current limit (200 A).
Exelion
Member
It would surprise me if Tesla releases one of their own, for several reasons. They don't have a need to, for one. The Supercharger network is growing healthily, Tesla owners are using them, and they already have a CHAdeMO adapter for people to use already. Granted, it's not as great, especially at EA(V) stations where CCS1 to CHAdeMO is 8 to 1. Another is why did they go through the trouble to partner up with EVGo and retrofit (some) their stations with Tesla adapters? That's a real head scratcher. It would be easier to just sell an adapter than go through that hassle. The last relates to the CCS2. Tesla makes CCS2 adapter, I think it was because that was the dominant standard in Europe, and they were all but forced to do so. Not that they really wanted to.
I do think think if Tesla made one, it would be better than Setec's, for sure, and probably charge faster too, no doubt.
How would your opinion change if you knew that Tesla has already said they would deliver one in the first half of this year? (At least in Korea.)
They've indicated they're making one for the Korean market, which also uses CCS1 and which has a much higher ratio of CCS1 stations to Tesla superchargers, supposedly sometime in the first half of this year. It'd be surprising if once it's out there isn't demand to bring it to the US as an alternative to the Chademo adapter. Being able to natively charge at 150 kW or better on CCS1 vs 50 kW on Chademo (or chademo-tied adaptors like Setec on the 3/y) seems like a major advantage.
Tesla announces new CCS charging adapter but North America launch still unclear
Tesla has announced a new CCS charging adapter that this time can work with its proprietary connector. However, the availability...
electrek.co
Exelion
Member
That it's in Korea, for one, and that's not out yet, for another. Tesla wouldn't be the type of company that would region lock something would they?
The CHAdeMO adapter came out in time for Japanese market Model S deliveries. It was also immediately offered here in North America, and a European (i.e. Type 2ish) version for Europe as well. Later the North American Model 3s suddenly started supporting the adapter when they started delivering Model 3s to Japan. Japanese Teslas have the same charge port that Korean and North American cars use.
The Korean-funded SETEC CCS1 adapter appears to have cracked the CCS1 wall at Tesla. I don't see any reason Tesla would not want to sell its eventual version to North American customers. In the meantime, they did drop the price of the CHAdeMO adapter by $50 to $400 (USD) in response.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
If you look at those "retrofits" it's just a Tesla CHAdeMO adapter put into a box with a longer cable (seriously, that is exactly what it is, you will notice the CHAdeMO plug must be plugged into the box for the Tesla cable to work). Tesla probably did minimal to nothing except perhaps nodding their head and selling EVGo a couple of CHAdeMO adapters (at most additionally selling them a longer cable).
eVgo offers CHAdeMO fast charging to Tesla owners – UPDATE – The Long Tail Pipe
It's better integration than just chaining an adapter to the chargers as they did previously, but requires almost no development effort.
Indeed, but it's been expanding. Per Tesla Model 3, S, X & Y Charging with EVgo Fast Charging
The local Walmart w/two EVgo DC FCs recently each got the CHAdeMO adapter bolted to the side. Also, often the holster is modified to hold the smaller Tesla connector. It used to hold the larger CHAdeMO plug.
Someone else pointed out is is 3D-printed (could be). At that above Walmart, one of the 3D-printed overlays was totally broken w/only the 4 screws and overlay fragments. At the other DC FC, everything was intact.
Tesla was motivated to make the CCS2 adapter because it was the easiest way to provide the older S & X cars access to V3 Superchargers. In Europe, V3 stations only have CCS2 connectors while the V2 Superchargers have dual cables for the Tesla Type-2 SC and CCS.
The CCS2 adapter was released before there even was a V3 Supercharger in Europe... And even so there is no reason they would have had to make it compatible with CCS stations.
When they decided to put a native CCS port on the Model 3, they clearly had a plan to support V3 Supercharging on that connector. It was already evident that the Model 3 did not support Supercharging on the upper pins the way the S and X did.
While its true that the V3 Superchargers do not need to support other CCS cars, the Model 3 clearly did need to be compatible with other CCS charging stations. In addition, making a Supercharge V3 adapter for S & X that is not compatible with industry standard CCS chargers is nonsensical and hostile to customers. Tesla has generally acted to make their cars omnivorous in that they can charge from most sources. Today, the notable exception is SAE-CCS. I expect that they will eventually make that available to North American and Korean Tesla owners through an adapter.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Evgo locations seem to be around superchargers in cities. I don't see any potential benefit where I travel.
FMinMI
Member
Sure it's a benefit - more chargers at that location for Tesla vehicles but paid for by EVGo... What am I missing if that is not the case?
EVgo is trying to make money. Therefore, they have mostly deployed chargers in metro areas where they will be used regularly. They have very few charging stations on rural interstates. They installed some rural stations in California with grant funding.
Exelion
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Tesla works on a different business model than EVGo (and possibly other EV Charging companies). From what it looks like on their website, EVGo is structured similarly to how vending machine contractors work, where the landowner reaches out to EVGo to get chargers installed on their property. The cost of running the chargers and the profits are divided between EVGo and the landowner. Probably the reason why I see unevenly spaced locations in the city. Six EVGo's over here, and none for the next 20 miles, etc.
Tesla, deploys their SC's in strategic, (almost) equidistant locations that they think would benefit the EV driver because they do all their own planning, leasing, construction, and service. The fundamentals of the business models make for very different location strategies. Also a consequence of this is that SC's are located further away from businesses and don't have much of ICE'ing problems as much as EVGo's chargers located right next to the business.
The question then becomes why haven't some Interstate station owners see the *light* and install 10-20 DC chargers at their site? Maybe it's because there's not enough long distance non-tesla EV's to justify the huge cost or some other reason. But I would like to see more non-Tesla chargers in addition to SC's.
Tesla, deploys their SC's in strategic, (almost) equidistant locations that they think would benefit the EV driver because they do all their own planning, leasing, construction, and service. The fundamentals of the business models make for very different location strategies. Also a consequence of this is that SC's are located further away from businesses and don't have much of ICE'ing problems as much as EVGo's chargers located right next to the business.
The question then becomes why haven't some Interstate station owners see the *light* and install 10-20 DC chargers at their site? Maybe it's because there's not enough long distance non-tesla EV's to justify the huge cost or some other reason. But I would like to see more non-Tesla chargers in addition to SC's.
Tesla also has the major advantage that they book some revenue from car sales as income for the supercharger network. It's baked into the price of every car they sell that has "free" supercharging. I don't positively remember the exact amount, but I think I read that it was $2,500. And they don't really worry about very high operating losses of isolated supercharger stations or ones on less traveled routes that are not regularly used because they are booked as a marketing expense for the car sales business.
Then there's the fact that they also make their own charging hardware and there is/was significant commonality between the superchargers and the normal charger units that each car has (I'm not sure if this is still the case with the switch to V3 superchargers), which gave an added benefit due to economies of scale, either to the car's cost of production or to the charging station's whichever way you wanted to look at it. Etc, etc.
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