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racer26
Active Member
How does that compare to 4Q15 and 3Q16?
On the Uber discussion? Yeah, I completely don't understand Uber's valuation - a company that produces nothing but a neat way of hailing a ride, that's never made a profit, is taking reckless risks, and even if it did profit would be doing so on the backs of their drivers violating the law in most of their cities - has a valuation double that of Tesla, a company owning 2 of the largest factories in North America AND selling 100k+ cars/yr at an ASP of ~100k and margins approaching 30%.
I know for sure in Toronto, where Uber has a healthy user-base, if the cops wanted to they could easily charge every Uber driver with operating an unlicensed taxi service. That's not right, and its no way for a company to do business. Never mind that most of their drivers personal-class insurance won't cover them if something bad happens while carrying a fare.
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Write me up as another that never really understood why Uber has such an insane valuation. They break or skirt the law, most places they operate. Their moat currently is nonexisting as Lyft and others show. What exactly is so valuable there? While as Racer said, Tesla has lots of moat and actually has achieved stuff.
Cobos
Cobos
graphix25
-=electronboy=-
Good point, forgot about Lucid who is a startup out in CA. Supposedly they are working on a making their first car Level 5. The sensor suite includes solid-state LIDAR, radar and cameras. My guess is they are focused on the car platform development and are just starting on planning for the autonomous driving. They will need a prototype to test against which likely doesn't exist yet.
lucidmotors
Maybe Uber's valuation is unjustified compared to TSLA because, as a private company, they don't have to deal with these shorts and the fossil fuel-funded misinformation campaigns.
An afternoon swan dive, like we just saw, is becoming almost as common as the mandatory morning dips for TSLA. This is because the morning dips don't do much good for the shorts any more, due to higher volumes. The exception to the swan dives is afternoons when rising stock price keeps volume high into the close. The good news about the swan dives is we're often seeing them neutralized by buying much sooner than in the past. Rather than a decline stretching into close, we're seeing a small decline halted by buying and sometimes a spurt upwards after it is caught.
N5329K
Active Member
What am I missing? Why is this so hard?
Take Uber's CEO into consideration and you'll understand why they do what they do:
What Makes Uber Run
Robin
Take Uber's CEO into consideration and you'll understand why they do what they do:
What Makes Uber Run
Robin
dennis
Model S Plaid
Queue up the SeekingAlpha headline:
3 Times As Many Tesla Buyers Would Not Buy Again
pz1975
Active Member
Imagine if the previous rating had been 100%:
Infinity Times As Many Tesla Buyers Would Not Buy Again
I honestly do not understand how Uber is a money-losing business. What is capital-intensive about a ride-hailing app that takes a cut of all fares?
Probably a dumb question, but what do they spend their money on? Drivers bring their own cars.
- Self-driving R&D?
- Satellite expenses/map creation R&D?
- Ads?
- Insurance?
- Lobbying/permits?
I'm not even sure if half of those expenses are significant and I still don't see how this company loses $800 million a quarter even if all 5 of those are going full bore. What am I missing?
Probably a dumb question, but what do they spend their money on? Drivers bring their own cars.
- Self-driving R&D?
- Satellite expenses/map creation R&D?
- Ads?
- Insurance?
- Lobbying/permits?
I'm not even sure if half of those expenses are significant and I still don't see how this company loses $800 million a quarter even if all 5 of those are going full bore. What am I missing?
it's approaching the upward trend line... maybe we'll see something interesting tomorrow morning. it usually jumps on high morning volume.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
At the Air reveal Lucid said the car would have the hardware at introduction and then they would add capability from one of the partners at a later date.
So I take it they are licensing the software and buying the hardware direct from the manufactures.
GBleck
Member
I was under the impression it is lobbying and not charging enough in new areas in order to grow market share. I never understood how they have a market cap larger then Tesla. What is really confusing is why it didn't implode when the CEO of Uber said he would buy as many self driving Tesla as they could make and the market just stares blinking wondering why they would bother selling to you and not just right an app to hail and cut out the middle man.
Edit: Oh and I almost forgot... does Carl Icahn still own a $100 million position in lyft? Make of that what you will.
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MitchJi
Trying to learn kindness, patience & forgiveness
Defeated in San Francisco, Uber sends self-driving cars to Arizona on self-driving truck
Defeated in San Francisco, Uber sends self-driving cars to Arizona on self-driving truck
After being defeated in efforts to test self-driving cars in San Francisco without a permit, Uber Technologies Inc. packed up its fleet of cars and sent them to Arizona on Thursday — in a self-driving truck.
The ride-hailing company admitted defeat Wednesday evening, after the California Department of Motor Vehicles yanked the registrations of Uber’s self-driving cars. The move came after a tumultuous week that included Uber launching its self-driving pilot program in San Francisco with much fanfare, then proclaiming that the cars weren't actually self-driving cars once the DMV raised objections.
<Snip>
Defeated in San Francisco, Uber sends self-driving cars to Arizona on self-driving truck
After being defeated in efforts to test self-driving cars in San Francisco without a permit, Uber Technologies Inc. packed up its fleet of cars and sent them to Arizona on Thursday — in a self-driving truck.
The ride-hailing company admitted defeat Wednesday evening, after the California Department of Motor Vehicles yanked the registrations of Uber’s self-driving cars. The move came after a tumultuous week that included Uber launching its self-driving pilot program in San Francisco with much fanfare, then proclaiming that the cars weren't actually self-driving cars once the DMV raised objections.
<Snip>
There gotta be some rules that say what is self-driving and what is not.
How about this: if there is a guy in the driver seat it's not "self driving".
I bet that truck is not self driving. It is a pile of bull sugar.
racer26
Active Member
The only way I can see for a company that does what Uber does to lose that much money is through gross mismanagement of the fares and payments to drivers (ie. selling the service for less than you're paying the drivers)
mmd
Active Member
- VIN assignment could be to fill up the inventory and borrow against those from ABL? Seems like they have over 500 P100Ds in inventory, but only showing 33 on ev-cpo.com.
List of all P100D inventory cars
- We only need to look back at Q1 and Q2 to get an idea of sales when there was no openly widespread discounting. We can see some good discounts even now, on ev-cpo.com. If you are in for a P100D, this is a good time.
Sorry, I don't have time/desire to read or refute your other points. Apologies.
3Victoria
Active Member
Yes, my understanding is that they are subsidizing service to undercut the competition in order to go their business. If they csn kill the competition, then they are fre to increase fares as they see fit, and, if they can swing it, outside an local regulation. They have made a habit of pushing against local regulation. I have concerns that they will not be good citizens if the establish a monopoly in any area.
Hogfighter
Professional Lurker
I'm with you. It must take real skill to lose that much money with like no employees.
Sep 2016: 247 Ss; 601 Xs
Dec 2015: 373 Ss ---but 1,248 Ss in Denmark (IRC another 20% of the DN vehicle tax exclusion drops off at year-end 2016)
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