So why hundreds of thousands of Tesla buyers are OK paying for features and not getting them except, at best, much much later?

[MrBadger]

How is not that a breach of contract says “it’s there” and it is not?

It’s a bit like Schrödingers cat, except it’s both there and not there, until you go to try it…

Sorry, not helping…

 

[Tham]

Configured our 23 MYP with EAP @ $6k upon initial order in January. Shortly after joining the forums and a fair amount of Googling, we decided to rethink and pocket that $6k instead. It’d be awesome if the car could park itself in our tight garage space, but given the feature timeline (or lack thereof), I’m happy with our decision.

As others have pointed out, EAP and FSD can always be purchased at a later date - ideally when they’ve actually been developed and properly implemented.

 

[Konicom04]

Yes it is. The manual identifies both Autosteer and Navigate on Autopilot as beta features.

It’s too bad that you didn’t find this forum until after you bought your car. If you had looked here earlier, you would have known what to expect, and could have avoided buying a car you’re unhappy with. Now you’ll just have to wait (like the rest of us) for these issues to get resolved. Tesla frequently makes hardware changes that temporarily disable certain features, so the Autopark issue is not unusual. Note that Autopark was never very reliable even when it was enabled.

Honestly - take a step back and re-listen yourself. "... Too bad you didn't find this forum ... " This is not tesla, or its service center.

@MuchHat is totally on point here. I purchased the 2023 M3P in December, and it never crossed my mind that such basic feature as park assist isn't there until i came here to the forum.
My take is - I freaken love the whole tesla experience and ideology, and so I am willing to overlook this. I think most of us here do.

But - @MuchHat is right. This is a big problem.
If this was a Chevy, or a BMW, or any other brand - I would certainly be returning the car for credit

 

[Konicom04]

You will not be able to just take your car to Tesla and leave it with them to 'fix' autopark. You first need to do a service request, describing the problem. Tesla will then tell you that autopark will be enabled in a future software update and cancel your service request. The service center won't take the car in to sit around waiting for the software update because there is nothing they can do to it. New software downloads automatically when it's available for your car.

But - there is no park assist, which is an included feature - not a beta software

 

[derotam]

I see. Don’t remember such a note, but I’ll look for it. It should be in all the stuff I signed. The definition of “temporary” matters.

Also in my state in particular if a new car stays in shop for repairs more then 30 days for a manufacturing defect it’s considered a lemon and they have to buy it back.

So if there is no note I take the car to the Tesla shop and wait for them to fix the autopark, if it stays more then 30 days it’s a lemon.
If there is a note that defines temporary as a year then yea, they had some clever lawyers.

So now it’s a matter of finding that note and seeing how explicit was the definition of “temporary”.

I'm not trying to trash you, I really am not...but assuming you are talking about Washington, and even just in general, it seems like you don't really know much about the lemon laws. Generally in order to claim a lemon it is a pretty involved process with VERY specific things that YOU need to do and have documented.

In regards to attempting to make a lemon claim JUST for Autopark unavailability, personally, I don't think you would have a chance as I don't think a reasonable person would say that it is either a serious safety defect, or even that it substantially impairs your use(lots of other legal wording behind this one) of the vehicle.

Your better chance for anything would be a violation of contract small claims lawsuit...but then you are going to have to come up with a value for Autopark.

Good luck though. If you attempt either of these avenues, let us know how it turns out!

Now if you just want to be on the forum and complain about you not having the ability for the car to Automatically crash while parking, that is fine too! haha.

 

[legendsk]

I don't want seem uncaring, but children are not allowed to perform business transactions. Our society has agreed that children do not have enough experience to make sound judgements. The generally agreed-upon age is 21 years. By then, the majority agree, they will learn, (if they are ever going to), enough about the world around them, that their decisions are as good as they are going to get. Anyone who chooses to conduct business transactions with a company, without thoroughly vetting them, checking references, researching the product they are buying, etc., is by definition handicapped, either by age, intelligence, mental health or some other affliction that interferes with their ability to function.

Tesla as a company seems to be remarkably transparent. Truthfulness is required and prized in the company culture. The employees are highly paid and rewarded and they are expected to preform exceptionally or they are quickly culled from the herd. Innovation is also treasured and constant improvements and change are normal. "Try out new ideas. If they work, spread the word and we'll all do it that way. If they don't work, clean up the mess and move on - try out the next new idea".

This results in incredible value. What you get for your money is shockingly great. This also results in constant upheaval and change and of course, the occasional mess to clean up. If you are 4 years old, you can whine that things are not what you expected and perhaps gain some sympathy. If you are a normal adult, not so much. Most folks just shrug off your whining, view you as somehow handicapped and move on. I don't think you can expect much else. If you are unhappy and convinced your Tesla is not satisfactory, then please don't waste your time complaining about it, just trade it for something that makes you happy.

Elon is gonna Elon and Tesla is gonna Tesla. If you bought a Tesla without understanding that, shame on you.

 

[Konicom04]

I don't want seem uncaring, but children are not allowed to perform business transactions. Our society has agreed that children do not have enough experience to make sound judgements. The generally agreed-upon age is 21 years. By then, the majority agree, they will learn, (if they are ever going to), enough about the world around them, that their decisions are as good as they are going to get. Anyone who chooses to conduct business transactions with a company, without thoroughly vetting them, checking references, researching the product they are buying, etc., is by definition handicapped, either by age, intelligence, mental health or some other affliction that interferes with their ability to function.

Tesla as a company seems to be remarkably transparent. Truthfulness is required and prized in the company culture. The employees are highly paid and rewarded and they are expected to preform exceptionally or they are quickly culled from the herd. Innovation is also treasured and constant improvements and change are normal. "Try out new ideas. If they work, spread the word and we'll all do it that way. If they don't work, clean up the mess and move on - try out the next new idea".

This results in incredible value. What you get for your money is shockingly great. This also results in constant upheaval and change and of course, the occasional mess to clean up. If you are 4 years old, you can whine that things are not what you expected and perhaps gain some sympathy. If you are a normal adult, not so much. Most folks just shrug off your whining, view you as somehow handicapped and move on. I don't think you can expect much else. If you are unhappy and convinced your Tesla is not satisfactory, then please don't waste your time complaining about it, just trade it for something that makes you happy.

Elon is gonna Elon and Tesla is gonna Tesla. If you bought a Tesla without understanding that, shame on you.

That's excellent.
Thanks for that eloquent point of view.

 

[Supcom]

But - there is no park assist, which is an included feature - not a beta software

But, there is nothing for an auto mechanic to do to the car, so the service center will not accept it and the service request will be cancelled.

The 'beta' term is not germane to this issue, though I believe you will find that all ADAS features are labeled as 'beta'.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Honestly - take a step back and re-listen yourself. "... Too bad you didn't find this forum ... " This is not tesla, or its service center.

@MuchHat is totally on point here. I purchased the 2023 M3P in December, and it never crossed my mind that such basic feature as park assist isn't there until i came here to the forum.
My take is - I freaken love the whole tesla experience and ideology, and so I am willing to overlook this. I think most of us here do.

But - @MuchHat is right. This is a big problem.
If this was a Chevy, or a BMW, or any other brand - I would certainly be returning the car for credit

I wasn't admonishing MuchHat, I really wished he had found this information before ordering the car. Owning a Tesla is unlike owning any other brand, and the people who do their research are generally happier with their purchase since their expectations have been set. You can't rely on the information Tesla makes available, because they're not good at communicating.

I took delivery of my first Tesla 7 years ago today (Model S85) so I know what to expect, and I researched that purchase for several months before ordering the car (mostly in the now-defunct forum on Tesla's website).

 

[EVNow]

I am confused about the current situation with Tesla's enhanced autopilot and full self-driving (FSDb) features.

You are mixing up a LOT of things.

First let us take your title

So why hundreds of thousands of Tesla buyers are OK paying for features and not greeting them except , at best, much much later?​

Nobody thinks Autopark is going to come "at best, much much later". That applies only to actual hands free / minds free ("L3/L4") autonomous driving - which Tesla is no longer promising since 2019 March.

So again, what is your confusion ?

 

[MuchHat]

Thank you all for the info. Summarizing here for the benefit of others reading:

(1) there is a small print in the contract, that I did not see, saying “you are taking delivery of car that has auto-park temporary disabled”. I actually did not know since I have a Volvo that does autopark, so I thought this is table stakes. But, yes, I do t have arguments left there.

(2) at least it says temporary disabled so can’t be forever disabled, or one such can hope

(3) On the FSD everything other than traffic stops it’s listed under “upcoming” that I understand now it’s years

So the only thing that has a form of binding clause in the contract is : the disabled auto-park is temporary. So one can go after a year and say it’s not temporary anymore.

Everything else is kickstarter for an extra $9k, well put by others.

 

[MuchHat]

You are mixing up a LOT of things.

First let us take your title

So why hundreds of thousands of Tesla buyers are OK paying for features and not greeting them except , at best, much much later?​

Nobody thinks Autopark is going to come "at best, much much later". That applies only to actual hands free / minds free ("L3/L4") autonomous driving - which Tesla is no longer promising since 2019 March.

So again, what is your confusion ?

Well, after reading more and using the info provided in this thread there is no much confusion left - as far as FSDb. Legally speaking they are allowed to give you nothing on FSDb. It’s kickstarter for $9k as others said.

Autopark and summon on the other hand have a binding clause (aka enforceable) in the contract. My 2023 car says “temporarily disabled” so I have to wait for a period of time that can be reasonable considered temporary than I can ask to be fixed under warranty.

I understand the reaction of “all those other people are waiting too”, but I do not see the harm in trying to understand the legal basis for the waiting.

Yes, the smart lawyers at Tesla thought of everything, still worth checking maybe they missed something.

Common sense speaking “upcoming” for 6 years it’s a bit extreme, let’s hope “temporarily disabled” it’s not 6 years too

 

[nvx1977]

I am confused about the current situation with Tesla's enhanced autopilot and full self-driving (FSDb) features.

It seems hundreds of thousands of customers are paying for these features, only to later find out that there is no available version to upgrade their car to.
E.g. some versions of FSDb are available, but they are not compatible with the customer's car. Similarly, some versions of enhanced pilot with auto park are available, but they do not work with the customer's car.

I am wondering if Tesla should not be allowed to sell those these features unless there is a version of the feature that is currently applicable to their car, that is, installable as soon as finish paying.
I understand some greatness are bad, but at least I get something for the money, after all quality is subjective, but getting nothing?

Above would force Tesla to take more responsibility and ensure that there is always something available for customers to use their money on, rather than leaving them with unpredictable wait times for the next working autopilot or FSD version.

I find it strange that the current situation is considered normal. Do you have any thoughts on this?

When you buy a Tesla as an informed customer, you should know that Tesla intends to update your car's firmware for a really really long time. As such, "features" in traditional cars, which remain stagnant for the lifetime of those cars MUST come delivered with the car. Since Tesla is constantly iterating, it is part of the ownership experience that sometimes some features go away (temporarily or permanently), and others appear.

I think this is the best explanation why "hundreds of thousands" of Tesla customers are ok with it. For sure, not all of them are. Lots of griping on the forums about those missing features. But for the most part, people are OK with Tesla's iterative firmware update approach.

FWIW: when my model 3 was delivered in early 2018, I had no working wifi, and my rear seat heaters were not functional. These are not things that I think about in the least 5 years into ownership (and well before that).

 

[MuchHat]

Would you consider it unreasonable Tesla guarantee access to FSDb to anyone who paid the newly substantially increased price for FSD?

 

[Dewg]

Would you consider it unreasonable Tesla guarantee access to FSDb to anyone who paid the newly substantially increased price for FSD?

I think you're missing some history. FSD Beta was released at Christmas to any/all cars that met the hardware requirements and purchased/subscribed to FSD. So all new cars purchased late last year got in.

Unfortunately, NHTSA investigated Tesla and a recall was issued for FSD Beta. The regulations require that no new FSD Beta downloads are allowed during the recall period until Tesla resolves the recall items.

Once Tesla satisfies the items in the recall, and the recall is concluded (which it sounds like we're close, if not there with 11.3.4) then Tesla will start rolling out FSD Beta again to all new cars with FSD purchased or subscription.

 

[MuchHat]

On the other hand I hear the horror stories that in the past people waited over a year to get access to FSDb, although they paid for FSD whatever the price was at that time.
So, you are telling me that was in the past and now it’s different?

 

[Yelobird]

On the other hand I hear the horror stories that in the past people waited over a year to get access to FSDb, although they paid for FSD whatever the price was at that time.
So, you are telling me that was in the past and now it’s different?

Yes

 

[MuchHat]

Dewg, how would you answer the question below: #a, #b or #c?

Given the recent steep increase of FSD cost:

(a) If a customer requests access to FSDb from Tesla and the company is either unwilling or unable to provide access to FSDb within one month of the request, then they should refund the cost of FSD to the customer.

(b) If a customer requests access to FSDb from Tesla and the company is either unwilling or unable to provide access within three months of the request, then they should refund the cost of FSD to the customer.

(c) Tesla should continue to provide access to FSDb according to their current policies, which are based on the rules that are most convenient for the Tesla Beta program.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Once Tesla satisfies the items in the recall, and the recall is concluded (which it sounds like we're close, if not there with 11.3.4) then Tesla will start rolling out FSD Beta again to all new cars with FSD purchased or subscription.

According to TeslaFi, some people receiving FSDb 11.3.x did not have FSDb previously, so I assume the recall issues have been resolved.

Dewg, how would you answer the question below: #a, #b or #c?

Given the recent steep increase of FSD cost:

(a) If a customer requests access to FSDb from Tesla and the company is either unwilling or unable to provide access to FSDb within one month of the request, then they should refund the cost of FSD to the customer.

(b) If a customer requests access to FSDb from Tesla and the company is either unwilling or unable to provide access within three months of the request, then they should refund the cost of FSD to the customer.

(c) Tesla should continue to provide access to FSDb according to their current policies, which are based on the rules that are most convenient for the Tesla Beta program.

The last price increase was 6+ months ago, but it doesn't really have any bearing on anything, and your question to @Dewg is moot. Tesla's current policy is to give FSDb to anyone who requests it, as long as they purchased or subscribed to FSD and they meet the software/hardware requirements for FSDb. Unless something changed recently, FSDb (but not regular FSD) requires HW3, so not everyone who has FSD meets the requirement. People who purchased FSD get a free upgrade to HW3, but people who subscribe do not. The software requirement is that whatever build is installed in your car is not newer than the latest FSDb build.

 

[KArnold]

According to TeslaFi, some people receiving FSDb 11.3.x did not have FSDb previously, so I assume the recall issues have been resolved.

Well, one car if I'm reading this correctly for 11.3.4.