Well, maybe they will be charging more AC too in the future...
If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging
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Well, maybe they will be charging more AC too in the future...
If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging
Lot's of learning here, thanks!
Personally, I would not instinctively call all 240V charging as Level 2, but it is true that in U.S. the distinction clearly is made. Level 1 is 120V (5-15) and anything 240Vish is Level 2 or, go high enough, Level 3. (Electric car - Wikipedia) Maybe this also explains why in the U.S. there is more talk of Level 2 than in Europe of any equivalent term.
In Europe, where I believe the whole continent is 220-240V, even the basic AC charging is of course 220-240V to begin with and for me the step up to "Level 2" would instinctively mean a dedicated EV charger. Instinctively "Level 1" here would be charging from a Schuko plug - the "5-15" of non-UK Europe - is 240V up to 16A (not recommended for continuous).
I guess the closest equivalent to a NEMA 14-50 in Europe is the IEC 60309 (something also used in the U.S. for camping sites?), which is basically a sort of industrial plug and has a couple different adapters for the Tesla Mobile Connector. The best you can most commonly get out of these is 32A from the three-phase network (some exceptions of course). This is what was recommended for homes before Tesla brought their Wall Connector here.
There's an interesting disconnect here, I think, between the U.S. and Europe. Understandably Level 1 at 120V is so slow that it is on a level of its own, but as I understand it 14-50 is not necessarily much faster than IEC 60309 charging in Europe. Yet 14-50 would be called Level 2 in the U.S. and I would not have called IEC 60309 Level 2 in Europe... I might have called a Wall Connector Level 2 for it being EV specific, though, but I guess in the U.S. depending on the voltage it is Level 3...
I guess lesson learned here is, there really is no Level 1 vs. Level 2 in Europe. Maybe it all actually is Level 2 or Level 3 equivalent, even charging from any wall socket at home - and, more importantly, that these U.S.-origin (or California-origin) terms are not applicable at all here (also 3-phase being more common etc.). That could explain why people talk not of levels, but of Schuko or 3-phase (or other common names for industrial plugs) or Type 2 based on what AC socket is on the charger end instead...
The IEC 61851-1 charging modes I have not really heard being used to refer to chargers at all, though I guess that would be the official standard in EU as @arnis quoted. (IEC 62196 - Wikipedia) Why those have not caught on, I do not know. I guess the thing is, they are not all that useful as everyday distinctions. Level 1 - 3 in U.S. communicated clear speed steps, whereas Modes deal more with electric safety and setup details.
I certainly haven't heard anyone say "I was charging Mode 3". They'll just say "I was charging Type 2" based on what plug was on the charger end... in the U.S., in similar scenario, I understand many would say "I was charging Level 2" or I guess Level 3 if applicable?
I don't believe it has to be.
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Well, I believe there are no public Type1 EVSE's - Type1 is pushed out. All public normal chargers (aka Level2 AC) have Type 2 socket. When time comes to have another EV, I will definitely get an EVSE with fixed Type2 cable to my driveway. Right now, my home EVSE is Type1 fixed cable. It does have a hard wire cable and just J1772. This is for convenience. For me, it is unacceptable to connect two sides of the cable on daily basis. It is slow, cable might be dirty somewhere in between (hard to store) etc.
Yep, that would be like a full power one phase plug, called the "blue plug". This is actually pretty rare thing as 99,9% of all our househould appliances work with the regular household plug, no need for more juice. Though "red plug" is more common, as every 3-phase device uses that. Still way less common than Nema 14-50 in US. Most households don't have any need to have like 3-20kW motor/heater running just for cooking or spin cycle of washing machine. Mostly high power appliances are heavy and stationary. Therefore hard-wired anyway.
Though Tesla's portable EVSE has both, blue and red adapter available.
Well, we usually don't mention levels. Partly due to our charging infrastructure started better years ago. We just have Type2 and that's all - it starts at one phase 16A and ends with 3x32A. Household plug is not a "charger". And not even EVSE. Though if you call a hotel and ask "do you have EV charger available they might answer "no, but we have regular plug for vacuums and stuff". That would do a lot during a night.
Correct. This is also something nobody mentions.
So, to sum up.
We have just a Schuko socket. US could call that Level 1, we call it "regular socket".
We have regular car charging outlets (Type2). US could call those Level 2, we call those "chargers" - incorrectly of course. EVSE would be correct.
We have fast charging stations. This we call the same. ChaDeMo, CCS, SuperCharger or combination (with Type2 socket pretty much always available as well).
And the only thing we should mention, here, in EU, is what is the maximum rating for EVSE (charging outlet). As this does make a difference, at least for Tesla's.
And also we have blue and red plugs, that are rare. Tesla users might ask for those as Tesla is the only EV that comes with a portable charger that has swappable adapters. All other EV's just come with a "regular plug" EVSEs.
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Just leave one side plugged in. I usually recommend that people get a Type 2 station without cable, and then get a Type 2 cable. This gives you the same convenience of a Type 2 station with a cable, if you just leave one side plugged in, but it also gives you the convenience of having a Type 2 cable available if you're going to take a longer trip.
The biggest downside to having a removable Type 2 cable is that someone could steal it, but for most people, that's not an issue, as they usually park and charge in a secure garage.
It doesn't help that much. The standard Schuko cables usually only draw 8A or 10A from a Schuko, which means that in 12 hours, you only get 22-27 kWh. That's fine for a low range BEV, but for a Tesla with 60-100 kWh, it can easily make things impractical. I'm particularly referring to the times when you're spending one night at a hotel before continuing a trip; the supplied charge may be insufficient to reach the next fast charger.
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Here is a prototype M3 sighting on a supercharger while using a car cover to hide the interior screen. Once finished, the white M3 left with a chase car. They wouldn't bother doing this if they were charging at the same rate as current vehicles. I'd say it's more likely than not the M3 (with the 7140 cell) will allow for faster charging than current cells in the S/X. Maybe not out of the gate, but certainly once Tesla moves the S/X to the 7140.
Tesla Model 3: prototype spotted being covered while Supercharging
Tesla Model 3: prototype spotted being covered while Supercharging
Tc911
Member
EVSteve
110% Solar Powered
Or they covered it up to avoid forum screaming over a slower SC rate. A wave of preorder cancellations would be a disaster.
You don't know that plus you're assuming the charge rate would be easy to see on the monitor. For all we know they have the option to change the display during road testing. Perhaps they simply didn't want people walking up to the car to take pictures of the interior.
Actually 10A is the lowest I've heard. Tesla's portable EVSE, AFAIK, has nominal set to 13A.
And that is what is agreed, that 13A continuous or 16A for a shorter period is acceptable.
Therefore during 12 hour cycle 35kWh should be expected as gross power.
ccutrer
Active Member
I'm curious - do European mobile connector adapters fit onto North American mobile connectors? I.e. If a North American car and its mobile adapter were to be transported over, and one of your adapters matches electrically (single phase, less than 250V or so), could you through that on out mobile connector and be able to charge. I know three phase wouldn't work. And there's practically zero possibility I'll ever be in this situation, but inquiring minds want to know. (In the meantime I'm headed to a European version of the Tesla website to see what kind of adapters are available)
Can the EU UMC do 3 phase charging?
If so, then I'd assume there's no chance the ends would fit - the EU ends would need to have more connections in them than the US ones have.
Yes, the EU UMC does 3-phase charging with the included "red" adapter. Roughly you get double the speed compared to a Schuko. There is also the possibility to use the 1-phase 16A continuous "blue" adapter. These are IEC 60309 plugs...
The "red" 3-phase is what I use sometimes at home. Mostly I just use Schuko that is more conveniently located.
@arnis Thanks for the great summary! Much learning done.
Yes, the EU UMC does 3-phase charging with the included "red" adapter. Roughly you get double the speed compared to a Schuko. There is also the possibility to use the 1-phase 16A continuous "blue" adapter. These are IEC 60309 plugs...
The "red" 3-phase is what I use sometimes at home. Mostly I just use Schuko that is more conveniently located.
@arnis Thanks for the great summary! Much learning done.
Well, the US connector only has four pins. I don't know if the layout is the same out not. Here are both sides of a US UMC:
The Gray one with female connections is the Plug, the black one with male connections is the UMC cable end. If the EU approach is the same, then if the locations and sizes match up and the EU version just has extra pins, a US UMC could accept an EU Plug, but not vice versa unless additional holes were drilled. The US UMC naturally cannot do three phase under any circumstances, having no connections at the car or circuitry for that.
@Saghost Nice photos, thanks.
The euro-UMC looks completely different there. It is rectangular 7-pin and all black connector with push-in locks on both sides.
UMC end(s) on top and a couple adapters on bottom:
The euro-UMC looks completely different there. It is rectangular 7-pin and all black connector with push-in locks on both sides.
UMC end(s) on top and a couple adapters on bottom:
Charging rate is one thing they could have hidden as well as maybe even a different location for charging. If 350 KW charge rates require a connector change (larger, or a second connection), then they may be using an adapter and want to hide this change. A Tesla patent filing showed a different mechanism for ultra fast charges where the charging station provides liquid cooling to the batteries to help maintain a low temperature. If they do this, it might require a second attachment, and if that's the case, they definitely would want to hide it.
It could be that it was covered to prevent the curious from taking detailed photos of the interior. Tesla is still being evasive around that.
Exactly. Prototype Model X's were always covered during charging as well, and they didn't end up having a different charging rate.
True, but in this case, the person witnessing the charge, watched them finish, take off the cover, and drive off. The interior was also clearly visible to witnesses when it pulled up. This is all according to the referenced article.
shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
Explanation-
Boss: "And make sure you throw the cover over that thing while it's charging to keep the snoopers at TMC away!"
Test Engineers: "Sure thing, chief!"
Boss: "And make sure you throw the cover over that thing while it's charging to keep the snoopers at TMC away!"
Test Engineers: "Sure thing, chief!"
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