Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Droschke]

Tesla described their imposed OTA vMax capping as normal battery degradation.

:rolling eyes:

I wonder how they will describe batteries seemingly magically gaining extra range (if and when they raise the vMax limit)...

Self healing battery packs?

Are you saying Tesla is being dishonest about it? Of course they are. None of their conflicting statements has any credibility. A cover up from day one. These batteries must be defective, otherwise why the cover up?

 

[Droschke]

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Apologies for being purposely vague, but let me just clarify that my decision to back off on this is not dictated by Tesla or anyone at Tesla... as much as they seem to wish that were the case. I can legally continue doing what I do, saying what I say, etc... but, unfortunately, the risk in continuing to do so on this matter is just a bit too high for me to deal with at the moment.

So while I can technically keep poking the bear on this by posting more information, revelations, and such... the bear has quite a few more teeth than I do (read: money and lawyers) if it decides to make my life miserable... and I have good reason to believe this particular bear will tolerate no further poking from me on this.

Edit: On that note, it does seem like a lawsuit is the only way this is going to get anywhere... so, again, best of luck with the class action.

Thanks for additional clarification. It does seem as a cover up that only the court system can uncover.

 

[Skipdd]

Actually it’s comments like your’s that are annoying. It is clear from reading years of posting that KarenREI knows far more than you do about batteries and the control systems that run them. As somebody who isn’t affected by this, she actually can look at the problem objectively whereas you are so emotionally attached to the issue, you have lost any semblance of objectivity. Please stop with the lame gas tank analogy that just underscores your inability to grasp the nuances and complexity of battery management. This is something that she actually understands.

I agree with @VT_EE wrt to @KarenRei ‘s technical acumen. Should be ok to express different technical views w/o attacking the person’s intellect/technical ability. I fully empathize with everyone’s frustration and as noted elsewhere I think the way Tesla is handling this is BS. I do not agree with the rest of VT_EE’s post.

 

[Droschke]

I agree with @VT_EE wrt to @KarenRei ‘s technical acumen. Should be ok to express different technical views w/o attacking the person’s intellect/technical ability. I fully empathize with everyone’s frustration and as noted elsewhere I think the way Tesla is handling this is BS. I do not agree with the rest of VT_EE’s post.

Not being a battery expert it's hard to argue with her technical acumen. Her knowledge of the background and the detail about this thread was pretty weak, even though later she showed willingness to learn more from the impacted owners. I was waiting for the other battery experts who have contributed to this thread earlier, like @IngTH and @egn1 to jump in the conversation so we can learn more.

 

[Leeboy22001]

I've gone over my CANBUS data via ScanMyTesla from the last few weeks, and it would seem that the Max cell voltage hasn't changed with 2019.28.2 (even though reported capacity has increased) !, this is assuming that the charges that could only make it to 98% with older software where able to reach 100%, as per my most recent charge, Max cell voltage being 4.078v @ 100%.

I can only assume that Tesla have either changed the way kWh is calculated, or decided to reduce the minimum cell voltage to increase usable capacity !?.. at least they are less likely to catch fire at a lower steady state voltage, than higher!?

 

[sorka]

Not yet.
I tried to get 100% charge Thursday and it stopped at 98% after 2.5 hours on the Supercharger. It was about 1 hour to get to 90%

How about before and after at say 90%?

 

[willow_hiller]

Five more installs of 2019.28.2.5 today on TeslaFi. Four went to S85s, and one went to an S70D. Have we ever heard of this issue affecting anything other than an 85?

 

[sorka]

It is also important to remember that the rated range displayed next to the HV battery charge level on the center display is just an estimation and does not reflect the true range of the vehicle, as the end-of-drive conditions are based on real-time battery measurements of reducing battery power, rather than software estimates.No further diagnosis is needed and service visit not required at this time, would you like to cancel your appointment?

This should be exhibit #2. In writing from a service adviser trying to BS you into believing rated range is estimated range.

 

[Droschke]

Five more installs of 2019.28.2.5 today on TeslaFi. Four went to S85s, and one went to an S70D. Have we ever heard of this issue affecting anything other than an 85?

here

 

[sorka]

I've gone over my CANBUS data via ScanMyTesla from the last few weeks, and it would seem that the Max cell voltage hasn't changed with 2019.28.2 (even though reported capacity has increased) !, this is assuming that the charges that could only make it to 98% with older software where able to reach 100%, as per my most recent charge, Max cell voltage being 4.078v @ 100%.

I can only assume that Tesla have either changed the way kWh is calculated, or decided to reduce the minimum cell voltage to increase usable capacity !?.. at least they are less likely to catch fire at a lower steady state voltage, than higher!?

The first thing would be a software cover up. The second is possible if they were willing to dip further into the buffer but that would be dangerous to the health of the battery. That extra buffer that keeps the systems running (minus the drive units) is low enough load that it doesn't risk exposing the weakest cells of the weakest strings to negative polarity but the load of even enough to drive 20 mph is riskier and riskier the further you dip into that buffer.

If you've seen any significant increase in rated range without an increase in kWh available, then they changed the wh / mile constant. If you see a jump in kWh without seeing vmax increase, then the BMS is lying about available capacity unless they are including more bottom end buffer.

 

[Droschke]

here

That's interesting. As soon as I gave the link to @willow_hiller, a permission has been placed on the sheet!!! Why?

On Edit:
@willow_hiller, did you get the prompt to provide your google account info?

 

[willow_hiller]

That's interesting. As soon as I gave the link to @willow_hiller, a permission has been placed on the sheet!!! Why?

Got a quick screenshot. Maybe the owner of the sheet was afraid of griefing?

 

[Droschke]

Got a quick screenshot. Maybe the owner of the sheet was afraid of griefing?

View attachment 440308

Did you get the prompt to provide your google account info?

 

[willow_hiller]

On Edit:
@willow_hiller, did you get the prompt to provide your google account info?

Not on the first visit. But now viewing seems to be locked.

 

[KidDoc]

I full charged mine for grins with the 2019.28.2 firmware and it shows 254 rated miles. 265ish new, 235ish two weeks ago when we went to go see Queen in Houston.

My opinion is that Tesla briefly limited some of the cells with the 85 battery while figuring out the fire issue and has since unlocked it. It is BS and they should be more transparent but I think they are too worried about stock hits to be open.

 

[willow_hiller]

It is BS and they should be more transparent but I think they are too worried about stock hits to be open.

Honestly I think being a publicly traded company is incompatible with Tesla's mission statement. The sooner Elon can take the company private the better.

 

[Droschke]

Not on the first visit. But now viewing seems to be locked.

This is a bad move by the owner of the sheet. We were encouraged to use it, sometimes in May and it has been a very useful tracking tool. This now discourages those who on the daily basis find out and report being impacted and want to add themselves to the list. If setting permission is done for the purpose of the audit trail it would be meaningless on Internet (what an unknown email address would tell you?). Google sheets already have a pretty good revision history control which can be used to revert to the previous version if someone messes things up.

To the owner of the sheet: Please explain.

 

[Droschke]

I full charged mine for grins with the 2019.28.2 firmware and it shows 254 rated miles. 265ish new, 235ish two weeks ago when we went to go see Queen in Houston.

My opinion is that Tesla briefly limited some of the cells with the 85 battery while figuring out the fire issue and has since unlocked it. It is BS and they should be more transparent but I think they are too worried about stock hits to be open.

what was your full RM before the cap update?

 

[David99]

I've gone over my CANBUS data via ScanMyTesla from the last few weeks, and it would seem that the Max cell voltage hasn't changed with 2019.28.2 (even though reported capacity has increased) !, this is assuming that the charges that could only make it to 98% with older software where able to reach 100%, as per my most recent charge, Max cell voltage being 4.078v @ 100%.

I can only assume that Tesla have either changed the way kWh is calculated, or decided to reduce the minimum cell voltage to increase usable capacity !?.. at least they are less likely to catch fire at a lower steady state voltage, than higher!?

Can you share the numbers/screen shots of ScanMyTesla here from before and after the 2019.28 update? If Tesla increased the capacity but not the max voltage, then they are totally cheating and just pretending the range is back when it isn't. We have plenty of historical data how Tesla calculates range and if they changed that now to show a higher range that isn't there, that's going to show up.

 

[mjmiron]

Can you provide URLs for the correct equipment? Cable and monitor...

Thanks!

I will once I get the correct cable as I am not sure if I have the correct reader