Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[faughtz]

After scheduling a service appt with tesla because I was seeing single digit kW charging at Superchargers when I was paired with another car tesla replied:

——-

So, After escalating to our engineering team they let us know that with the battery degradation comes also a reduction in charge speed in order to keep the battery safe. Also, clearing out your tripometer readings will help make the calculation more accurate as well. At this time there are no issues with your vehicle.

We've also seen that your primary source of charging is SuperCharging which also causes pack degradation, furthering the degradation of charging.

——-
I have seen these extraordinarily low rates only when my paired stall is occupied by another car. If the paired stall is not occupied, charging is slower than it was before the June theft, but not single digit rates.

This is another admission that safety is a driver of these actions.

For me to travel, I will have to utilize my stall, and ensure no one is in the paired stall. Anyone else seeing this?

 

[Droschke]

I think that mis-characterizes the video. He shows about 3kWh of capacity was not "moved" it was removed (start watching @13:47) and then the constant used to calculate range was tweaked to cover some of the loss of range (@16:52).

In other words, the model 3's magic constant is also being manipulated

 

[jerry33]

In other words, the model 3's magic constant is also being manipulated too

I don't know about the 3, but in the S the Ideal Range number doesn't appear to have been messed with to any great extent.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

In other words, the model 3's magic constant is also being manipulated

There's actually no evidence of the change in constant in the video (in the linked video, he provided the numbers "based on previous data"). I'm not saying the change did not happen; someone should link to his Bjorn's prior video showing where he measured this constant so we can check his method, and figure out exactly when this happened. I've seen no evidence of the constant changing in 2019. Not saying it didn't.

 

[Chaserr]

It sounds like Tesla needs help opening a dialog to solve this gigantic problem.

Tesla, please listen to us. Please talk to us. We don't want to sue you. If you can't afford this, offer us options. Upgrades, returns on our options you've stolen. A lot of people will probably be willing to trade the kWh you stole in exchange for the ability to add Autopilot to their older pre-AP car, or AP3 to their Ap1. I will absolutely pay for a battery & power upgrade, even if it's a 100 capped to 90 for fire safety that's still an upgrade over what I originally bought and I'd pay for it.

Not everyone will pay. Not everyone can lose the capacity they had - many (like the OP @Dutchmeeuw who has sold his Tesla already since it no longer has the range he needed when he purchased the range upgrade) will need what they had and won't pay extra to be made whole... but let those of us willing to help you offer our help. Please! You're bunkering down for a fight that will scare off every future buyer for years, and you're risking it all to be unnecessarily hostile to us. We want to help you, we want you to help us. Let's sit down and talk out a strategy where we all win, we all keep driving Teslas, and Tesla keeps being a company.

 

[First EV]

After scheduling a service appt with tesla because I was seeing single digit kW charging at Superchargers when I was paired with another car tesla replied:

——-

So, After escalating to our engineering team they let us know that with the battery degradation comes also a reduction in charge speed in order to keep the battery safe. Also, clearing out your tripometer readings will help make the calculation more accurate as well. At this time there are no issues with your vehicle.

We've also seen that your primary source of charging is SuperCharging which also causes pack degradation, furthering the degradation of charging.

——-
I have seen these extraordinarily low rates only when my paired stall is occupied by another car. If the paired stall is not occupied, charging is slower than it was before the June theft, but not single digit rates.

This is another admission that safety is a driver of these actions.

For me to travel, I will have to utilize my stall, and ensure no one is in the paired stall. Anyone else seeing this?

Even if what they are saying was true and not just a lousy excuse that would not explain the single digit speeds when paired vs not paired. Sounds like warranty avoidance to me.

 

[faughtz]

Even if what they are saying was true and not just a lousy excuse that would not explain the single digit speeds when paired vs not paired. Sounds like warranty avoidance to me.

But why only occupied, paired stalls?

 

[BPeter]

But why only occupied, paired stalls?

Potentially an error in the way they've implemented the math on the charge speed reduction. Maybe the tacked-on speed reduction just takes the max allowable charge speed and subtacts (made up) 40kW from it. When paired to a car that got there first and is at low SoC, your car has a limited max charge speed. Say 50kW. Then it subtracts 40kW from that and gives you 10kW max charge speed.

 

[First EV]

But why only occupied, paired stalls?

That's my point, why only occupied, paired stall? There explanation does not make sense.

 

[maximizese]

After scheduling a service appt with tesla because I was seeing single digit kW charging at Superchargers when I was paired with another car tesla replied:

——-

So, After escalating to our engineering team they let us know that with the battery degradation comes also a reduction in charge speed in order to keep the battery safe. Also, clearing out your tripometer readings will help make the calculation more accurate as well. At this time there are no issues with your vehicle.

We've also seen that your primary source of charging is SuperCharging which also causes pack degradation, furthering the degradation of charging.

——-
I have seen these extraordinarily low rates only when my paired stall is occupied by another car. If the paired stall is not occupied, charging is slower than it was before the June theft, but not single digit rates.

This is another admission that safety is a driver of these actions.

For me to travel, I will have to utilize my stall, and ensure no one is in the paired stall. Anyone else seeing this?

I suspect something else is going on here. Single digit charging rate at Supercharger must mean either faulty Supercharger hardware, software restriction, or faulty car hardware. I haven't had much luck test V2 Supercharging since May 2019. Every V2 Supercharger lot either had multiple stalls malfunctioning and/or very slow charging rates for all Tesla vehicles. I've had much better luck using Urban 72kW stalls; though I have noticed the dreaded taper but it sure beats what others have experienced.

If you have a dual on-board charger, I would check out a HPWC or Destination charger to see if you can get the full 80A or charing speeds above 14kW. If so, that would be very interesting that the AC-DC Level 2 charging would be faster than DC-DC Level 3. If that's the case then something is seriously wrong.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

After scheduling a service appt with tesla because I was seeing single digit kW charging at Superchargers when I was paired with another car tesla replied:

——-

So, After escalating to our engineering team they let us know that with the battery degradation comes also a reduction in charge speed in order to keep the battery safe. Also, clearing out your tripometer readings will help make the calculation more accurate as well. At this time there are no issues with your vehicle.

We've also seen that your primary source of charging is SuperCharging which also causes pack degradation, furthering the degradation of charging.

——-
I have seen these extraordinarily low rates only when my paired stall is occupied by another car. If the paired stall is not occupied, charging is slower than it was before the June theft, but not single digit rates.

This is another admission that safety is a driver of these actions.

For me to travel, I will have to utilize my stall, and ensure no one is in the paired stall. Anyone else seeing this?

Here are the promises Tesla made in 2013 (from the Wayback machine) regarding supercharging, when many of us purchased our vehicles:

--
Supercharger
300 miles of range per hour of charge
Using industry-leading technology, the Tesla Supercharger refills over half the battery in about 30 minutes. Over the next year, Tesla plans to install Superchargers on major interstates throughout the country. All Model S vehicles with the 85 kWh battery and properly-equipped vehicles with the 60 kWh battery can use Tesla Superchargers.
--
Now Even Faster
Tesla Superchargers represent the most advanced charging technology in the world, capable of charging Model S nearly 20x faster than competing EVs. Our second generation Supercharging technology, available soon at all Supercharger stations, reduces charging time by 30% and provides half a charge in just 20 minutes.
--
Frequently Asked Questions
I am Supercharging, but not as quickly as I expected, what could be wrong?
The Supercharging rate may vary due to battery charge level, current use of the Supercharging station and extreme climate conditions.

How often can I Supercharge, is it bad for my battery?
Supercharging does not alter the new vehicle warranty. Customers are free to use the network as much as they like.
--

Nowhere did Tesla say supercharging would be reduced with age and use. Tesla points to supercharging not altering the warranty, which makes us believe it is safe, but then the warranty declines coverage of degradation. This is entirely misleading!

These were all material representations made by Tesla as inducements for us to purchase our vehicles, and without any qualifications, footnotes, disclaimers, etc.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

This was the line of cars waiting to charge in Quartzsite, AZ this past Saturday. This location doesn't normally get much activity, maybe one or two vehicles charging. The situation was strange enough for someone to post about it in the national Model 3 FB group. Perhaps the doubling of supercharging time for many is taking its toll.

 

[maximizese]

This was the line of cars waiting to charge in Quartzsite, AZ this past Saturday. This location doesn't normally get much activity, maybe one or two vehicles charging. The situation was strange enough for someone to post about it in the national Model 3 FB group. Perhaps the doubling of supercharging time for many is taking its toll.

That is incredible. I've been there twice (once after I pick up the car in Tempe and 2nd for an ASU graduation) and I lucked coming in and out during odd hours with less than 50% stall utilization. Quartzsite is a must-stop for most of us going from Indio/Palm Springs to Phoenix; we don't have the range to skip it. I think you're right about the longer Supercharging times taking a toll.

If I had to wait 9 Teslas deep in line, I would just leave my in the garage and take our TDI instead. I'm guessing you had to wait about 1.5 hrs for a stall, then wait another 30 minutes to get enough range to make it to Buckeye.

 

[Droschke]

I don't know about the 3, but in the S the Ideal Range number doesn't appear to have been messed with to any great extent.

They forgot to manipulate that too. Like the capped cars still showing the old uncapped charge time.

 

[faughtz]

Here are the promises Tesla made in 2013 (from the Wayback machine) regarding supercharging, when many of us purchased our vehicles:

--
Supercharger
300 miles of range per hour of charge
Using industry-leading technology, the Tesla Supercharger refills over half the battery in about 30 minutes. Over the next year, Tesla plans to install Superchargers on major interstates throughout the country. All Model S vehicles with the 85 kWh battery and properly-equipped vehicles with the 60 kWh battery can use Tesla Superchargers.
--
Now Even Faster
Tesla Superchargers represent the most advanced charging technology in the world, capable of charging Model S nearly 20x faster than competing EVs. Our second generation Supercharging technology, available soon at all Supercharger stations, reduces charging time by 30% and provides half a charge in just 20 minutes.
--
Frequently Asked Questions
I am Supercharging, but not as quickly as I expected, what could be wrong?
The Supercharging rate may vary due to battery charge level, current use of the Supercharging station and extreme climate conditions.

How often can I Supercharge, is it bad for my battery?
Supercharging does not alter the new vehicle warranty. Customers are free to use the network as much as they like.
--

Nowhere did Tesla say supercharging would be reduced with age and use. Tesla points to supercharging not altering the warranty, which makes us believe it is safe, but then the warranty declines coverage of degradation. This is entirely misleading!

These were all material representations made by Tesla as inducements for us to purchase our vehicles, and without any qualifications, footnotes, disclaimers, etc.

Continuing the dialog with tesla, I asked:


Since this is a battery safety issue significant enough that you have taken 40kW of performance, 10kWh of capacity, and dramatically slowed charging, should I be concerned about parking in my garage?

 

[Droschke]

But why only occupied, paired stalls?

May be they are taking almost all your charge rate and giving it to the car you are paired with. Have you noticed if the other Tesla paired with you is a newer Tesla?

 

[faughtz]

I suspect something else is going on here. Single digit charging rate at Supercharger must mean either faulty Supercharger hardware, software restriction, or faulty car hardware. I haven't had much luck test V2 Supercharging since May 2019. Every V2 Supercharger lot either had multiple stalls malfunctioning and/or very slow charging rates for all Tesla vehicles. I've had much better luck using Urban 72kW stalls; though I have noticed the dreaded taper but it sure beats what others have experienced.

If you have a dual on-board charger, I would check out a HPWC or Destination charger to see if you can get the full 80A or charing speeds above 14kW. If so, that would be very interesting that the AC-DC Level 2 charging would be faster than DC-DC Level 3. If that's the case then something is seriously wrong.

As I stated, no issue (beyond the recognized theft of performance, capacity, and reduced charging rate) with charging at at 72kW charger or an unoccupied, paired supercharger stall. Issue occurs repeatedly at a paired, occupied supercharger stall. Continue to see single digit kW charging rates at an occupied, paired stall.

 

[gmo43]

So have any of the victims that have been infected by batterygate received v10 firmware yet, or are we orphans?

Haha I was going to ask that myself. Looks like we are orphans. Been looking everyday. I'd say more like sh*t list.

 

[Droschke]

After scheduling a service appt with tesla because I was seeing single digit kW charging at Superchargers when I was paired with another car tesla replied:

——-

So, After escalating to our engineering team they let us know that with the battery degradation comes also a reduction in charge speed in order to keep the battery safe. Also, clearing out your tripometer readings will help make the calculation more accurate as well. At this time there are no issues with your vehicle.

We've also seen that your primary source of charging is SuperCharging which also causes pack degradation, furthering the degradation of charging.

——-
I have seen these extraordinarily low rates only when my paired stall is occupied by another car. If the paired stall is not occupied, charging is slower than it was before the June theft, but not single digit rates.

This is another admission that safety is a driver of these actions.

For me to travel, I will have to utilize my stall, and ensure no one is in the paired stall. Anyone else seeing this?

Tesla is telling @faughtz:

So, After escalating to our engineering team they let us know that with the battery degradation comes also a reduction in charge speed in order to keep the battery safe.

That's what I and many other owners have believed all along. This is a safety issue.

Tesla is telling @faughtz:

We've also seen that your primary source of charging is SuperCharging which also causes pack degradation, furthering the degradation of charging.

Tesla is now saying lots of supercharging is bad for your car. The owners living in apartments with no AC charging be warned.

 

[lightningltd]

This was the line of cars waiting to charge in Quartzsite, AZ this past Saturday. This location doesn't normally get much activity, maybe one or two vehicles charging. The situation was strange enough for someone to post about it in the national Model 3 FB group. Perhaps the doubling of supercharging time for many is taking its toll.

View attachment 466525

I am seeing that more and more in Eureka. Just a year or year and a half I would only see 1-2 Teslas in a week. Now there is a line at times. Especially if there are a few of us 85's charging