Maybe this diagram helps you guys in understandig Li-plating vs. cell voltage . Please be aware that Li-plating is only one of several aging processes which may lead to the restriction you're suffering from, but its the most dangerous concerning thermal runaway/spontanous fire.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Anyone with X75D notice this problem? I know this is a forum for the S but I see no discussion on the X forum. Seems to me that they share the same batteries
As a side note I did lose 5 miles of range on that update so now I am at 217mile range at 100 percent or 9% loss from original...I have 37kmiles only.
As a side note I did lose 5 miles of range on that update so now I am at 217mile range at 100 percent or 9% loss from original...I have 37kmiles only.
Has anyone charged at 100% and noticed now that they get half of Regen working (vs none before).
Also with 3-4 miles or range left I still don't see the power being limited as it used to (sometimes starting around 12miles of range)
Seems to me that we have kwh buffers both at the top and at bottom now.
Also with 3-4 miles or range left I still don't see the power being limited as it used to (sometimes starting around 12miles of range)
Seems to me that we have kwh buffers both at the top and at bottom now.
Thanks for posting. It appears a definition of what exactly constitutes “normal aging” would be helpful. I think this whole situation is more nuanced than it outwardly appears.
Whiteblaze
Member
I don't have the tools to measure cell voltage, unfortunately. If anyone near me has the means, I'd happily let them, but I'm in the middle of a road trip right now. I'm in the Raleigh NC area until Monday morning, then driving back to the Manchester CT area all day Monday. I'll actually be in Boston for a while on Tuesday, then back to Manchester for a while after that.
Where is this chart from?
Tesla has only talked about preserving capacity/reducing degradation. They have said nothing about fire risk (although there has been plenty of speculation in this thread). Some (most?) cars are unaffected, so I would say "It seems unclear why some cars are affected while others aren't", vs "more than others".
As far as I can tell, my 2014 is not impacted (yet?). CPO from TX, delivered with 28,500 miles (battery treatment by prior owner unknown). Full charge when new to me was 261 miles, now (at 76500 miles) 90% is 229, 100% is 255-256. Range has been unchanged for at least 25k miles. I normally charge to 70% for daily use (plenty for me) and charge to 90% overnight before a trip. Maybe once a month I will top off to 100% immediately before a trip, timing the charge to end right before I leave. Battery P/N 1014114-00-E
I got 2019.16.2 on May 22, and 2019.20.2.1 on June 22. I took a 200 mile trip the day after getting 20.2.1 and supercharged 35%->90% en route (again 229 miles @ 90%). TeslaFi's battery degradation report and supercharging curve is essentially unchanged for the last 20k miles.
Will be different for higher/lower temperatures and charging currents. Not exactly the same cell, but similar. Will be little different for models with SiC-anodes.
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DJRas
Member
My S 85 reports I have 60.3 kWh usable battery!
Full calculated range on May 13 247 miles Full calculated range on June 20 217 miles.
But, now i cannot charge above 97% (210 miles). So, i can only get to 85% of my old range at the most I can charge now.
This is from Reuters few days ago, related to the Shanghai fire:
"The company has revised the charge and thermal management settings on Model S and Model X vehicles via an over-the-air (OTA) software update, to help further protect the battery and improve battery longevity, the statement said.The company has revised the charge and thermal management settings on Model S and Model X vehicles via an over-the-air (OTA) software update, to help further protect the battery and improve battery longevity, the statement said."
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But you don't know that the changes to the charging voltage are those changes. That information was released way before this happened and the first thing people reported was that the cooling system pump ran longer, or non-stop. The changes in this thread could be unrelated to the changes they referenced in regards to the fires.
Not sure what you are saying, but the article was published two days ago and what Tesla is saying per this article, even though it is fire related, it sounds awfully close to what they have said about the subject of this thread.
They originally announced the changes back in May: Tesla rolls out Model S and X battery software update after Hong Kong fire
They just recently announced more details about the cause of the fire, so the articles are reporting it as all new information.
I think Tesla has discovered lithium plating in some battery packs. The reduction in max voltage is an attempt to prevent further lithium plating (which could ultimately result in failure or fire).
So the big questions: is the plating considered normal? After the reduction in max voltage, will these packs be stable long-term? Should Tesla be replacing packs even though they haven’t technically failed?
So the big questions: is the plating considered normal? After the reduction in max voltage, will these packs be stable long-term? Should Tesla be replacing packs even though they haven’t technically failed?
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This is what Tesla has said in the electrek article regarding the range loss:
"We contacted Tesla about the issue and the company confirmed to Electrek that the range reduction is due to the software update... Tesla told us that the goal of the update is to “protect the battery and improve battery longevity” and it resulted in a range loss for only “a small percentage of owners.”
This is what Tesla is saying in the Reuters article regarding the Shanghai fire:
"The company has revised the charge and thermal management settings on Model S and Model X vehicles via an over-the-air (OTA) software update, to help further protect the battery and improve battery longevity, the statement said.The company has revised the charge and thermal management settings on Model S and Model X vehicles via an over-the-air (OTA) software update, to help further protect the battery and improve battery longevity, the statement said."
I believe the range loss issue is fire related.
Also to me the Tesla communications reflect that they are combatting against lithium plating.
They communicate two key messages;
Revised thermal management
Improved battery longevity
Lithium plating occurs when the battery is charged in cold and with high current (=thermal management)
When battery is prewarmed before supercharging (recent fw update) its less prone to lithium plating
When battery is not charged to 4.2v then its less likely to acquire lithium plating and hence max charge voltage must be reduced (recent fw update)
So the common nominator for reduced capacity could be that those packs commoncly charged in cold are affected ?
Would be interesting to know if affected batteries are often charged in temps <15C (<59F)....
They communicate two key messages;
Revised thermal management
Improved battery longevity
Lithium plating occurs when the battery is charged in cold and with high current (=thermal management)
When battery is prewarmed before supercharging (recent fw update) its less prone to lithium plating
When battery is not charged to 4.2v then its less likely to acquire lithium plating and hence max charge voltage must be reduced (recent fw update)
So the common nominator for reduced capacity could be that those packs commoncly charged in cold are affected ?
Would be interesting to know if affected batteries are often charged in temps <15C (<59F)....
Li Plating is not the reason folks here are suffering from "restriction". It's software that is limiting the maximum charge. Those here had no issues before the software update. The battery charged full when needed and they got the range then that they can no longer get now.
If you've been following the thread, you'd know that 100% in those cases is not really 100%.
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