Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Ferrycraigs]

That sure seems like Tesla still believes the batteries are fine. It was a bug. Not Lithium dendrites or lithium plating.

That is really very encouraging, but if it’s not damage, and is only a software bug, I am at a loss as to why have Tesla been so resistant to lifting the capping? My Service Centre won’t even entertain the idea of reverting the capping. There is lots of evidence of Tesla changing capping settings remotely. Is it really more difficult than I think?

 

[Joelc]

The car was forcefully updated by Tesla without my acceptance on June 20. That is when the problems started. Currently on 2019.24.1.5. I went from a 74kWh usable capacity to 66kWh usable capacity last week. Not sure what it is today. Can’t connect to the car.

My 2013 P85 received the 2019.24.1.5 update on 12/Jul.

I received the 2019.28.2.5 update yesterday and just installed it now.

I don’t monitor my 100% range very closely since my daily round-trip commute is ~50 miles and I only charge to 70%.

I also rarely supercharge but the last time I did charge to 100% (March?), i think my estimated max range then was 247 miles.

 

[Droschke]

Personally? My view is that Tesla:

• ... should accept that it needs to communicate more clearly about what it's doing and why, rather than trying to put up a wall of silence whenever it has to do something that some people aren't going to like. These packs - while they don't violate a condition in the warranty - clearly have not lived up to the longevity standards that people expected based on other Tesla packs.
• ... should not do expensive work that's not covered by warranty, but...
• ... when it's done something that has left a meaningful number of owners feeling let down**, do the most cost effective means to try help them feel that Tesla has made up for it.

So for example, I mentioned earlier one possibility of selling replacement, modern packs at-cost, as well as doing the installation at-cost. So you end up with a car with better range and charging performance than the day you bought it.

Another possibility would be to offer discounts to people with said vehicles on new S/X so that the new vehicles are sold at-cost.

I think doing expensive work on things not covered by warranties is a bad precedent to set, but at the same time, I do think the company should try to make things up to customers some way or another when they feel let down by something. Just my take.


** - And not for a stupid reason, like the people who demand retroactive price cuts when Tesla lowers its prices

@KarenRei, I love this post. Well done!

You could have saved me lots of time and grief to post this one much earlier. I'm becoming a fan now, seriously

 

[MP3Mike]

but if it’s not damage, and is only a software bug, I am at a loss as to why have Tesla been so resistant to lifting the capping? My Service Centre won’t even entertain the idea of reverting the capping.

Of course your service center didn't as there is nothing that they can do. Well technically I guess they can downgrade your firmware to an old version, but if they do that they will be fired. (Tesla has a strict no roll-back of firmware version policy unless approved, and probably performed, by engineering.)

For firmware all they are allowed to do is push the latest firmware that has been assigned to your car by engineering.

 

[lightningltd]

Interestingly, Tesla replied to Fred from Electrek.

They told him that new releases will fix this range issue. That sure seems like Tesla still believes the batteries are fine. It was a bug. Not Lithium dendrites or lithium plating.

I have an update from last night. Let's see how much capacity (range) comes back over the next 2 weeks.

Now on 2019.18.2

If this is the case, then here is what Tesla needs to do TODAY:
Send an email to all affected owners (They have the addresses on file) stating as to what the exact issue is, what is being done to mitigate it, and a timeline for the full kw to be unlocked. Also, an apology would be nice. An extra touch would be to give the affected owners some Tesla credit towards maintenance, parts, or merchandise. If they cannot restore the full kw back to what it was the day before the update, then fix / replace the pack.

 

[KidDoc]

I wanted to add that I was pushed a software update last night. Version is 2019.28.2 320Fba0. I didn't think anything of it until reading this thread. The car is plugged in now (took the Boxster today) and the recent 215-219 90% charge is now showing 228 rated mile range. They must have "unlocked" the cells with the new version.

 

[DaveBC]

But is anyone suggesting the BMS settings are too aggressive in Teslas?

It can be stated that Tesla has been delivering cutting edge technology for years. We certainly have reaped the benefit of this as owners. Tesla set the price that they were willing to offer this and we paid it.

Are the vehicles consumer goods ready to be purchased and used by the masses like we've been telling our skeptical family, friends and neighbours or are they experimental bleeding edge technology not for the faint of heart?

Should EV manufacturers test and model and prove system reliability for years before putting them on the market? What responsibility does Tesla have to us when guaranteeing 8 years, unlimited mileage powertrain warranty?

Creating the World’s Best Service and Warranty Program
Elon Musk, Chairman, Product Architect & CEO April 26, 2013
The battery pack in your car is obviously very important and expensive to replace. In developing the Model S, we took great care to ensure that the battery would protect itself, always retaining a few percent of energy. If something goes wrong, it is therefore our fault, not yours.

Except in the cases of a collision, opening of the battery pack by non-Tesla personnel or intentional abuse (lighting the pack on fire with a blowtorch is not covered!), all damage is covered by warranty, including improper maintenance or unintentionally leaving the pack at a low state of charge for years on end. The battery will be replaced at no cost by a factory reconditioned unit with an energy capacity equal to or better than the original pack before the failure occurred.

The intent is to provide complete peace of mind about owning your Model S even if you never read or followed the instructions in the manual.

Elon

Tesla is a relatively young organization. They have certainly made PR and customer service missteps. We love their products. We want them to succeed and continue to deliver more exiting products to market. It is saddening that it appears to require class action lawsuit to get a response from the company actually addressing the issue rather than "drive with the windows up" range tips. Engineering should have issued a bulletin to the Service Centres. They are of course afraid of bad press. They should learn from this experience.

How about Tesla rehires a Sales and Service VP and empowers them to communicate effectively with their customers. Puts processes in place to do that. Might be cheaper than dealing with arbitration (yellow border on MCU) and this law suit.

What Skipdd suggests is desperately needed.

On the bright side, I believe this happened because they are pushing the boundaries, advancing the BMS technology and all owners will benefit from this over time. Imagine if what they are doing now is not an attempt to delay failures to just past the eight year warranty responsibility period, but advancing pack lifetime far beyond the warranty period.

 

[lightningltd]

Yes, that's what a BMS does, from day 1 of vehicle ownership. That's the very reason why the BMS exists - to impose artificial limits on the battery, for safety and longevity reasons.

You do not seem to be getting it. The BMS did NOT do it. a SOFTWARE UPDATE did it ALL AT ONCE.
Clearly, you do not have an affected car, and therefore no skin in the game.

 

[Droschke]

if you were being responsible and charging only to 80-90% daily - then just change your daily charge to 95-100% and you've got your daily range back, and your level of stressing your batteries is exactly the same as it was before the update, because you're charging to the exact same voltage. Only long trips are affected.

Sorry, you are not well informed on what's happening additionally with the new charge rates. It now takes forever (a way much more than the previous forever) to charge to 100%. Some impacted owners can not even charge fully to 100% since the charging completes earlier.

 

[willow_hiller]

You do not seem to be getting it. The BMS did NOT do it. a SOFTWARE UPDATE did it ALL AT ONCE.
Clearly, you do not have an affected car, and therefore no skin in the game.

Could you please not try and gatekeep this discussion? @KarenRei seems to be very knowledgeable about the subject, and we're all entitled to discuss this issue regardless of whether we own an affected vehicle or not.

I believe the BMS is controlled via firmware, which is what gets updated during an OTA update.

 

[DaveBC]

You do not seem to be getting it. The BMS did NOT do it. a SOFTWARE UPDATE did it ALL AT ONCE.
Clearly, you do not have an affected car, and therefore no skin in the game.

The BMS is software.

We should all have empathy for affected owners.

 

[qwk]

Of course your service center didn't as there is nothing that they can do. Well technically I guess they can downgrade your firmware to an old version, but if they do that they will be fired. (Tesla has a strict no roll-back of firmware version policy unless approved, and probably performed, by engineering.)

For firmware all they are allowed to do is push the latest firmware that has been assigned to your car by engineering.

You made this up 100%. Individual Service Centers have a lot of leeway in their decision making.

 

[lightningltd]

You want Tesla to do replacements under warranty for things not covered by the warranty?

Even with the rate of range loss on these packs, they're still less degradation than the old Leafs. And you don't see Nissan rushing out to offer free upgrades on them.

You keep persisting to insist that this is normal degradation. it is NOT. The EVIDENCE is crystal clear. It is throughout the entire thread.

 

[SmartElectric]

The standard question, how long does it take to charge? Well, in May it was 45minutes, at the moment its 90 minutes to the next supercharger, and God knows how long it will be next week. I just don’t feel I can recommend it to my friends any more.

A new 100D is far far larger range, so much so, degradation or capping or otherwise long term is more than your car had new, so you were happy with it when it was new, and not so much now, but a 100D would be a superior car new or used to what you have had at the best of your ownership.

So why not recommend a new 100D or a Model 3 to someone if you ONCE were a satisfied owner with the range and charging speed far lower than you get with these new products?

 

[DJRas]

They didn't say that...

Yes, actually they did:

"As previously noted, we have been working to mitigate the impact on range for these owners and have been rolling out over-the-air updates to address this issue since last week.”

From Tesla owner who saw range slashed by software update filed class action lawsuit - Electrek

 

[qwk]

I wanted to add that I was pushed a software update last night. Version is 2019.28.2 320Fba0. I didn't think anything of it until reading this thread. The car is plugged in now (took the Boxster today) and the recent 215-219 90% charge is now showing 228 rated mile range. They must have "unlocked" the cells with the new version.

Rated range means nothing and can be manipulated by Tesla. Hopefully they did the right thing this time, but I seriously doubt it.

 

[MP3Mike]

Yes, actually they did:

"As previously noted, we have been working to mitigate the impact on range for these owners and have been rolling out over-the-air updates to address this issue since last week.”

From Tesla owner who saw range slashed by software update filed class action lawsuit - Electrek

Nope, you need to pay attention to the actual words. They said the range loss will be mitigated, you said it would be reversed. They mean two different things.

 

[KidDoc]

Rated range means nothing and can be manipulated by Tesla. Hopefully they did the right thing this time, but I seriously doubt it.

Very true. I really won't know until my next round trip to Houston and back (190ish miles) and see how it burns down the power over the trip. My next planned trip down there isn't until October for Greta Van Fleet concert.

 

[willow_hiller]

• ... should accept that it needs to communicate more clearly about what it's doing and why, rather than trying to put up a wall of silence whenever it has to do something that some people aren't going to like. These packs - while they don't violate a condition in the warranty - clearly have not lived up to the longevity standards that people expected based on other Tesla packs.

• ... should not do expensive work that's not covered by warranty, but...

• ... when it's done something that has left a meaningful number of owners feeling let down**, do the most cost effective means to try help them feel that Tesla has made up for it.

At this point I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone else as to the cause of this drop in range. I'm curious what those affected think would be an effective resolution.

For e.g. if 2019.28.2.5 increases your range back to where it was before 2019.16, would that be enough? Or would you also want service center battery pack inspections for peace of mind?

 

[lightningltd]

I drive a Signature P85 and am wondering if I was affected by this. I have been very disappointed with my capacity and degredation over the past year.

A 90% charge gets me about 213 miles reported and around 180-200 actual miles of conservative but hilly driving.

If it SUDDENLY dropped right after the update, then yes you are likely affected.