can you post those text messages? Tesla admitted to artificial capping in writing finally, this is helpful.My service with Tesla ended with remote diagnostics and a brief conversation via text messages. As expected they claim 'everything is fine with your battery'. When I asked for a report or data from the diagnostics they refused and waived the diagnostic fee right away.
Not going to post the entire conversation here, but they admitted they are 'artificially limiting the charge level to prevent a sudden loss of range' (=failure of the battery pack). I take that as confirming the theory that they know the packs will fail and they are trying to delay it until the warranty period is over.
Another interesting thing is they claimed my battery needs balancing and in order to bring my pack back in balance I should drain the battery down to 20% and then charge to 90% several times a week and do that for 3-6 months. Then check back. I have monitored my battery balance for 4 years and it has always been excellent with 4 mV. It hasn't changed, ever. So I know my pack is not out of balance. The other thing is the proposed procedure. That's just nonsense. It doesn't take the pack 6 months to balance. I interpret that as, go away we need time to figure out out problem.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
faughtz
Model S P85DL
Still need to collect data, want to draw max current long enough to cycle through all the modules.
They kind of admitted it already in their official statement that was published by one of the EV online magazines. This basically says the same thing using different words.
"In some cases, the FW may artificially limit the max charge level of cells with enough wear to prevent sudden and significant loss of range."
I think the case is very clear and the evidence is rock solid that they reduced the max voltage and thus capacity. Them admitting it isn't really making a difference at this point. But, that means they are admitting that this artificial reduction is not battery degradation. I think that is an important statement. They can't claim it is normal battery degradation if they admit they are artificially reducing it.
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Based off whats happening in this thread and the increasing reports of failed batteries are Tesla batteries only good for 5 to 6 years? What will this do to resale if this is true and it becomes common knowledge they only last 5 to 6 years? Then you have to spend 15-20k to replace the battery with a refurbished unit with only a 4 yr warranty.
That sounds like a business model that is about as sound as Solar City’s.
I'm not sure that's a safe assertion to make. The frequency of battery failure does not appear to be significantly high. In fact, it seems like the drive unit is a more commonly replaced component compared to the battery.
However, if the older batteries do not hold up well that may or may not reflect well on the longevity of the newer batteries; after all progress has been made in both design and function. One solution would be offer a separate ownership/lease option where you own the vehicle and have a separate lease/insurance on the battery. This would lower the cost of the vehicle, lessen the anxiety of a degraded or faulty battery, and even out the risk pool of any individual facing the expense of an out of warranty battery replacement. If a battery is $20K. imagine the cost of just the vehicle being $20K less. Fair?
Thats kind of the point why so many people I think are mad because it’s supposed to be a warranted item and they are seemingly putting a bandaid fix on it. And they don’t feel they can get as much for the car with reduction in range slower charging, and decreased performance in some cases as well.
As of now I would not buy another Tesla, period. I just don't trust Tesla any more. They pushed the limits too far and the owners are paying the price for it now being left behind with their crippled cars. So far this issue is completely drowned in Tesla's record breaking deliveries and shares value. Every new owner is as excited and enthusiastic as we early adopters were 6 years years ago. The company's success & Elon's personality are 1000 times brighter than the small dark spec of those complaining old time owners here. Tesla can totally ignore this issue and leave us stuck with our crippled cars without any bad press or negative impact on the company. We are grossly outnumbered by 1000 happy Model 3 owners every day posting on their social media how awesome Tesla is. Only if the class action turns out in favor of the owners it might get enough press to put a dent on Tesla.
If this was a small issue limited to a few batteries, Tesla would be proactive, replace them and reassure owners that they are taken care of. Tesla has done that in the past with other issues. They replaced all old UMCs even though only a few had issues. They replaced all cables/handles on all Superchargers 2 years ago. Replaced all drive units, even multiple times when they showed any sign of noise. I believe this battery issue is affecting all old battery packs. Some haven't developed the condition enough to be software limited, but the issue is inherently present in all old cells and will sooner or later cause problems. Tesla is trying to figure out what to do. This is a large scale problem. I believe that's why they are not communicating.
I want to believe that it's not too late. I hope Tesla will figure out a solution. One possible solution would be to replace all old batteries with new 100 packs and software limit them. For an extra fee the owner can unlock the extra capacity. This would create some income that would at least in part pay for the new batteries. That's assuming the new cell used in the 100 packs are not going to develop the same issue. If that's the case Tesla is seriously in trouble because the same cell Chemistry is used in the Model 3.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
I went to a SuC today. Only MS there. Outnumbered indeed.
Car is still awesome, but...
When the warranty runs out in three years, might have to convert the car into a powerwall in the backyard...
Car is still awesome, but...
When the warranty runs out in three years, might have to convert the car into a powerwall in the backyard...
100% charge just yielded BMS info that cell voltage was 4.16 across the board for all bricks in the 90kwh pack, so can I assume this qualifies as being affected by this software update?
I personally like the idea of paying for a 100kwh battery with a software cap to what I originally paid for. But I would expect a extremely fair core reimbursement for my flawed 90kwh pack (that never had more than 82kwh usable).
I'm surprised the shorts haven't already tried this. Maybe they have?
Ferrycraigs
Member
There are lots of reports on here from many owners. But it would be an error to think that all cars and all batteries have been affected. In terms of batterygate, my estimate is very low single figure % of pre face lift cars. Chargegate figure is, I think, much higher, but I don’t get any sense the % numbers are significant. I would not be surprised if the vast majority of Teslas have not been affected in any way. NB Between 2012 and 2018 there have been more than 260,000 Model S sales alone. People post on forums like this when they have a problem. People that don’t have problems tend to stay quiet.
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I would really love to know if the 100 packs will develop the same issues i n the future or not, because i'm on the fence about selling my late 2014 S85 (with AP1 and air suspension) to get a September 100D (with AP 2.5 and also with air suspension)
Decisions, decisions....
jaitch
Member
I am sure Tesla could sort out an uprated spring to cope with the extra load - what is the weigh difference? Tesla air is a dumb system (well the early version is anyway) and as far as I know doesn't have inbuilt variable damping rates to take into account height adjustment etc.
Anyway I am sure Tesla could solve the little engineering issues - if they wanted to.
mrneef
Member
My 2014 p85d in 10/2019 had its 85kwh battery replaced with a 90kwh.
12/31/19 car died on me and currently is in service again to have the 90kwh pack replaced.
will keep you all updated.
12/31/19 car died on me and currently is in service again to have the 90kwh pack replaced.
will keep you all updated.
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