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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

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View attachment 502980
The Total and Useable capacities are shown here.

We've lost 17% on our Model S @ 125k miles (67kW / 81.5kW)
~10% down on our Model X @ 60k miles. (77kW / 85.8kW)

It seems odd Tesla can market batteries without them actually having that capacity (or capacity available to the consumer). Does anyone know the real capacity of the 100kW battery?

I'm driving my Model S from California to Michigan soon, so I will get a lot of chances to test my charge speed. I was able to get to our Model X up to 96kW today at Maumee, OH. I haven't seen over 100kW since the #batterygate update.

I got the front end suspension shuttering fixed (hopefully) on our Model X and punched it. I do feel like some of the acceleration is gone. I think my Telsa fanboy days might be behind me. Including solar, I've put over $260k into Tesla products. No more Kool-Aid.:-(
 
We've lost 17% on our Model S @ 125k miles (67kW / 81.5kW)
~10% down on our Model X @ 60k miles. (77kW / 85.8kW)

It seems odd Tesla can market batteries without them actually having that capacity (or capacity available to the consumer). Does anyone know the real capacity of the 100kW battery?

I'm driving my Model S from California to Michigan soon, so I will get a lot of chances to test my charge speed. I was able to get to our Model X up to 96kW today at Maumee, OH. I haven't seen over 100kW since the #batterygate update.

I got the front end suspension shuttering fixed (hopefully) on our Model X and punched it. I do feel like some of the acceleration is gone. I think my Telsa fanboy days might be behind me. Including solar, I've put over $260k into Tesla products. No more Kool-Aid.:-(
Your range is going to get worse here in the Midwest vs California due to the cold.
 
Your range is going to get worse here in the Midwest vs California due to the cold.

I'm not concerned about the range I get, as that is a matter of efficiency. I've no doubt my motors & heater are working great. I'm mostly worried about the sudden drop in capacity and supercharging rate. I've got 22s (Pirelli) on my X and get about 65-70% of the rated range. That seems normal to me in the Michigan winter.
 
Does anyone know the real capacity of the 100kW battery?
I believe the 100kWh pack is actually close to it's rating, maybe a bit over when new.

Edit:

As for real capacity, the BMS reports usable capacity at a whopping 98.4 kWh. It also reports a 4 kWh unusable bottom charge, so that's 102.4 kWh total pack capacity! Congratulations, Tesla. A high capacity pack that meets its nameplate rating!

Pics/Info: Inside the Tesla 100 kWh Battery Pack
 
We've lost 17% on our Model S @ 125k miles (67kW / 81.5kW)
~10% down on our Model X @ 60k miles. (77kW / 85.8kW)

It seems odd Tesla can market batteries without them actually having that capacity (or capacity available to the consumer). Does anyone know the real capacity of the 100kW battery?

I'm driving my Model S from California to Michigan soon, so I will get a lot of chances to test my charge speed. I was able to get to our Model X up to 96kW today at Maumee, OH. I haven't seen over 100kW since the #batterygate update.

I got the front end suspension shuttering fixed (hopefully) on our Model X and punched it. I do feel like some of the acceleration is gone. I think my Telsa fanboy days might be behind me. Including solar, I've put over $260k into Tesla products. No more Kool-Aid.:-(
Not sure what they are currently, but the first 100kWh packs were really about 101.1, Jason(WK057) stated something along the lines of "Finally, they meet the advertised capacity" or something like that. No way I'm going to be able to dig up the actual quote.
 
We've lost 17% on our Model S @ 125k miles (67kW / 81.5kW)
~10% down on our Model X @ 60k miles. (77kW / 85.8kW)

It seems odd Tesla can market batteries without them actually having that capacity (or capacity available to the consumer). Does anyone know the real capacity of the 100kW battery?

I'm driving my Model S from California to Michigan soon, so I will get a lot of chances to test my charge speed. I was able to get to our Model X up to 96kW today at Maumee, OH. I haven't seen over 100kW since the #batterygate update.

I got the front end suspension shuttering fixed (hopefully) on our Model X and punched it. I do feel like some of the acceleration is gone. I think my Telsa fanboy days might be behind me. Including solar, I've put over $260k into Tesla products. No more Kool-Aid.:-(
The 100kWh battery has a different cell configuration. It still has 16 Modules, each of 6 Bricks, but at 516 Cells per brick (90 has 444 cells) the total capacity is slightly over at 102.7 kWhs, less 4kWh buffer that should be just under 99kWh Useable.

It is probably no coincidence that Tesla has stopped calling car models by numbers, ie S90 or X100 and just calls them Normal Range and Long Range. IMO not really that different to other manufacturers calling a car a 3000 XL when the capacity was actually 2987cc or similar.

It wouldn’t surprise me if we don’t see the old days of 100+ kW charging rates. Such high power does seem to be melting (not literally) quite a few batteries
 
Firstly I don’t believe Rated and NEDC are in any way linked.

I agree Typical is closer to Reality, but still misses the target.

Rated Range is ONLY affected by capacity. It is a fixed consumption rate so it’s a simple 'how much is left in the battery' divided by that consumption rate. I have a feeling it’s about 295 ish Wh/mi, but I’m not certain.

The 100% figure is purely a reflection of the Vmax setting. Before batterygate capping my 100% represented 69 kWhs. That was when Vmax was set at 4.2V. After capping my Vmax was set at 4.09V and my 100% figure represented 59kWhs. Consequently my real world range reduced, my Rated Range reduced and my Typical Range reduced. The Why This Happens is explained fully in the WiKi on Page 1 of this thread.

There may already have been some variation of the numbers (constants) over the years. But back in 2015 when S85D was introduced here, the "rated" range on the display matched more or less exactly the NEDC range (528km). Does not seem like a coincidence to me.

Assuming around 77,5kWh usable capacity when new, the Wh/km constant for the rated range would have been ~147Wh/km. For the "typical" range (~420km when new, a -20% difference to "rated") the constant is ~185Wh/km.

Now, a reverse calculation using these constants and the currently CAN bus reported full usable capacity (70,6kWh) would result in "full typical range" of 381km and "full rated range" of 480km. However, the CAN values for these are 398km and 501km instead. Does not make sense unless the constant has been tampered with.

The tampering of the constant to hide the range loss due to capping is included of the class action lawsuit so it's nothing new. Just saying that unless you either directly read out the CAN bus numbers, pay close attention to the actual kWh consumption, or watch the difference of actual range vs. typical/rated range it's possible to miss the fact that you have been Vmax capped.

My take on the whole thing is that Tesla took too big of a risk back when they decided to charge the cells all the way to 4,2V after playing it reasonably safe with the Roadster voltage cap. Maybe they thought it would be enough to discourage charging to 100%, advice which many owners followed but wasn't enough with all the supercharging going on as well.

Now we are collectively paying back that which was borrowed and I'm not at all convinced that the real amount of affected cars is "small". It could actually be the majority of the cars when we start reaching the end of the 8-year warranty.

It's a common theme on automotive news sites that the absence of VMax capping (safety buffer size of the battery) is mentioned as an indication of Tesla's lead in battery technology compared to other manufacturers like Audi, Jaguar and Porsche that VMax cap their batteries already from the factory. The legacy car companies have long experience in managing warranties and would never take the kind of risk that Tesla took. Maybe the risk paid off by helping Tesla take off like they have done, but it would be a PR (and probably financial) disaster for Tesla to admit now that they didn't really know what they were doing back when they failed to put in a cap and that's why they now are trying to reintroduce it quietly.
 
Hi guys,
I’ve got an impacted 70D with 60,000 miles from January 2016, so 4 years old now. About 59 KWh and 313 km typical range remaining with the usual slow supercharge rate.

Today I had to drive 250 miles to Sydney for a job interview, leaving early in the morning. I skipped the coffee but really perked up when 20 mins in I got ‘Car needs service, car may not restart’ message. It went away after 10 minutes but when I stopped at the next supercharger it showed up again and brought its ugly friend ‘Acceleration and top speed reduced, performance may be restored on next drive’. Super...

So I made it to the interview with wet hands and 15 minutes to spare after getting an emergency appointment with the SC, had a maximum of 100 KW power and no regen on the trip. Got through the interview successfully and against all odds the S started up afterwards. Given I’d arrived at the SC on a flatbed truck last month I didn’t take that for granted. Anyhow, the display showed 4% charge remaining when arriving at the SC and to their surprise I drove straight into the workshop because the door was open. They hooked it up to a charger in preparation to check the car and the HV battery completely conked out right away. The main error message from the car was ‘Isolation fault’ and from what I understand the most likely explanation for that and the associated shenanigans is that the HV battery is cactus and I’m in for a replacement.

I had noticed over the last few months (I’ve been following this thread since it was just six pages long) that quite a few of the original posters here have had their batteries replaced and now it may be my turn. So I’m wondering if, despite the software BMS changes that are so irksome with reduced range and charging, are the old batteries on the way out and dropping off one by one? That for those of us most affected, hopefully ‘batterygate’ will be addressed by natural attrition and replacement? That wouldn’t be the worst solution to that part of the problem, provided the warranty covers it.

So I’m hoping that the warranty covers my current problem and that the replacement isn’t a dud and gives me 200 miles+ because everything else would suck big time...
 
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That for those of us most affected, hopefully ‘batterygate’ will be addressed by natural attrition and replacement? That wouldn’t be the worst solution to that part of the problem, provided the warranty covers it.
That does seem to be the way Tesla is playing it, cap affected packs to nurse them along until near complete failure then replace.
 
That does seem to be the way Tesla is playing it, cap affected packs to nurse them along until near complete failure then replace.
Then the best strategy for us is to drive as much as possible and not worry about babying the battery and hope for the best (i.e failure). Since I know my 100 percent charge is now the old 90% (I have regen at 100 percent) this is what I am doing.
 
Then the best strategy for us is to drive as much as possible and not worry about babying the battery and hope for the best (i.e failure). Since I know my 100 percent charge is now the old 90% (I have regen at 100 percent) this is what I am doing.
That would speed up failure, which they are trying to delay so that they aren't flooded with failed packs, which would probably trigger an official recall. Obviously they are trying to avoid that and just slowly replace one by one as needed under warranty. That's my take on it anyway.
 
The main error message from the car was ‘Isolation fault’ and from what I understand the most likely explanation for that and the associated shenanigans is that the HV battery is cactus and I’m in for a replacement.

An isolation fault is often something other than the HV pack. In fact my guess is that you battery heater has failed.
 
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ssuing a recall a few months ago when they didn't have packs available to fix it wouldn't have helped anyone
It would have helped Tesla. By now the fines must be astronomical! If they had simply reported to the NHTSA and told us "we detected a problem and are working on a solution, it could be a few months and the temporary limits are a stop gap" none of this would have happened. Reporting to the NHTSA would mean no fines, communicating with owners would mean no lawsuits. All they had to do was talk and they would have bought the time they needed for free. Now it's going to cost a fortune.
 
I did back in June of last year. The response was not to worry about it since the car performs maintenance routines on its own - all normal.
They needed to buy some time while they figured out what was happening and what to do about it. Issuing a recall a few months ago when they didn't have packs available to fix it wouldn't have helped anyone. Hopefully they are ramping up production of replacement packs now.
Don't hold your breath. Elon and Tesla work slower than turtle speed. Sounds of it seems like they are still experimenting. Some stories are they get replaced by 90 some get new version and others get a crappy battery replacement. Or Tesla just sucks and had no official fix. Actually they do suck.