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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

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I've no idea, but don't you get chance to be excluded from the class? If so, does that leave you open to bring your own case?

Or the other way around, if you bring your own case, are you excluded from the class action?

And in the US are actions different between states or is this national?

The outcome of the Class Action applies to the entire class. Also, the claims of Plaintiff and the Class involve violations of state and federal laws. It's all in Post#1.

On Edit:
Q: "if you bring your own case, are you excluded from the class action?".

A: Typically, the settlement letter sent to the Class members states that you have the right and how to exclude yourself. Otherwise, you would accept the outcome of the Class Action.
 
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Have you read Post#1 of this thread?
IMO exposing Tesla's practice via high profile Youtubers, Facebook and Twitter is the way to go. But besides the Bjorn Nyland channel, which other channel under Tesla's radar showed legitimate concern about it?

- Ride the Lightning?
- Jay Leno?
- MKBHD?
- Solving The Money Problem?
- Sandy Munro?
- Doug DeMuro?
- James May, Jeremy Clarckson or Richar Hammond used to bash Tesla and now publish either pro-Tesla or just plain silly videos about themselves and their Teslas?

None!

I'm sure some of them couldn't worry less about loosing some Tesla fan subscribers as EVs aren't their main focus.

Are they all dismissing rangegate/batterygate/chargegate reports? Ignorance? What prevents them from exposing Instead of trying to catch Tesla, maybe the strategy should be exposing this practice (other manufacturers will follow, I'm sure). I don't want to hurt EVs adoption or Tesla's success, I simply cannot accept certain business practices where it seems that profit comes above all principles.

Tried reaching out to some popular Tesla podcasts and YouTube channels to voice our concerns but no response at all.
 
Tried reaching out to some popular Tesla podcasts and YouTube channels to voice our concerns but no response at all.

The Batterygated cars are a “small group” according to Tesla, may be that's why.

What's important is that the lawsuit and the mediation efforts (the only fix for our ordeal, IMO) are ongoing. We just need to wait a bit more.

"The parties will report to the Court with an update on October 30, 2020."
 
I have maybe a dumb question.

I wonder how many affected folks would void their battery warranty entirely and install a third party device (probably for a few hundred bucks) that unlocks original range and supercharge speeds?

17106940c0a6429caca3
Definitely something to think about after next May when my warranty expires.
 
I recently found out there have been some legal requests to some companies I use for normal activities seeking information about this particular issue from my private data. I'm still working to figure out where exactly these requests have come from, as some of that information was redacted when I was provided copies of the requests by the companies (they weren't required to provide me any info, but did as a courtesy, so we'll see how it goes). Based on the other data, I know it was definitely not the NHTSA... seems to be some attorney playing games with subpoenas. Fortunately, I don't store much of anything important "in the cloud" (in a manner that could be utilized without my consent anyway... ie: encryption), so would be nothing to get that way anyway, and both companies don't seem to have provided any information in response. I'll post an update, if possible, when/if I get more information.

---

I'm not completely sure when it happened, but the mods have moved several relevant and well-received posts from this thread to the Snippiness thread without explanation or notation here.
  • Notes about my previous contact with the NHTSA: Snippiness 2.0
  • Some relevant opinion in reply to a post, plus a bunch of cool stats about this thread: Snippiness 2.0
  • For completeness, a somewhat O/T post (but still very relevant to the civil discourse in this thread) about my current situation with mods/admins: Snippiness 2.0

Also a couple of relevant replies to those posts moved as well: Snippiness 2.0 ; Snippiness 2.0 ; Snippiness 2.0 ; Snippiness 2.0

These posts appear relevant to the discussion, so I feel that I have a duty to provide links to them so they're not completely lost from the discussion.
 
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I saw a 135KW for about 5 seconds on a new v2 supercharger before it settled down to 118KW at 20%.

One thing to be weary of is that v8 has no concept of > 120kW superchargers. The BMS still requests power that is safe and useful for the charge, but when it's above 120kW the BMS code in those versions wasn't tailored to be optimal for those power levels. There's no safety or hardware damage risk, as the BMS is still well aware of the normal limits for charging, but it could potentially lead to a bit more fast charge induced degradation than you'd normally expect.

So just something to keep in mind.
 
One thing to be weary of is that v8 has no concept of > 120kW superchargers. The BMS still requests power that is safe and useful for the charge, but when it's above 120kW the BMS code in those versions wasn't tailored to be optimal for those power levels. There's no safety or hardware damage risk, as the BMS is still well aware of the normal limits for charging, but it could potentially lead to a bit more fast charge induced degradation than you'd normally expect.

So just something to keep in mind.

Yea, I probably would have been a bit concerned if it stayed above 120KW for more than 30 seconds.
 
I'm not completely sure when it happened, but the mods have moved several relevant and well-received posts from this thread to the Snippiness thread without explanation or notation here.

The policy is that if a post you quoted has been moved to snippiness, they move your post too otherwise you end up seeing a quoted post that doesn't exist. This is how they explained it to me when I had the same thing happen.
 
Just my latest data points.
  • supercharged twice to almost 100% since installing 2019.28.2
  • charging still reduced by ~12 kW at midpoint (50% SoC)
  • first time no range increase, max still 325 km (~202 mls)
  • second time range increase of 8 km, max now 333 km (~207 mls)
Happy to see the changes in my car's charging pattern in comparison to this post 14 months ago.
  • current software version 2020.36.11
  • charging speed has remained similar, but starts out at 'normal'maximum of 115 kW
  • 100% SoC is now 369 km, which is pretty much what is was before BatteryGate.
  • calculation still seems to be done with 200 Wh/km
Extra info: I had the CCS 2 Combo adapter installed and have used it a couple of times. Not sure this has any bearing on this behavior, just mentioning it.
 
Happy to see the changes in my car's charging pattern in comparison to this post 14 months ago.
  • current software version 2020.36.11
  • charging speed has remained similar, but starts out at 'normal'maximum of 115 kW
  • 100% SoC is now 369 km, which is pretty much what is was before BatteryGate.
  • calculation still seems to be done with 200 Wh/km
Extra info: I had the CCS 2 Combo adapter installed and have used it a couple of times. Not sure this has any bearing on this behavior, just mentioning it.

@PaulusdB, Thanks for your feedback.

Folks, we need more good news. Please post here if you are gaining range.

Thanks.

On Edit:
@PaulusdB, is your total range gain gradual over several updates or it just happened with one update, i.e., after 2020.36.11?
 
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...@PaulusdB, is your total range gain gradual over several updates or it just happened with one update, i.e., after 2020.36.11?
I hardly ever charge to 100%, so I'm not sure, but think it was a instant jump from 340 to 369 km with the current software.

Guess I gave up hopes long time ago, thinking the maximum of 340 km was the final situation. This was the maximum until last August (then on s/w 2020.32.3 with CCS 2 Combo adapter installed). Had 2020.36.3.1 in early September and the current 2020.36.11 on September 22nd.
 
I am contemplating whether to also file actions against Tesla about my #chargegated S85. Long-distance travel is a no-go, add 3 1/2 hours charging on a 1000km trip to a long drive at it is. My GF is no longer willing to take the Tesla. Even our (old) dog is annoyed by the long and frequent stops. Hence we take a rented / borrowed Diesel car for these trips.

To get the ball rolling I sent a letter of complaint via registered mail to Tesla Switzerland in Zurich. After a few days already I received a call from the local Service Center. They told me, they would like to run a thorough diagnosis on my battery. I will get an eMail to which I shall reply to with dates that fit my schedule. This eMail never showed up. Instead I received a letter, also via certified mail, from my local SeC.

This letter seems to be the official answer to such inquiries, now - since I know of another owner who received the same letter. I translated it from German language to English language. The German language text looks to me also being (badly) translated to from another language, most likely English, since it has some (technical) wording which just does not make sense.

We refer to your letter xxx in which you state that the charge curve was lowered after a software update.
Tesla vehicles are unique in that Tesla continually strives to improve its vehicles by releasing regular software updates for a variety of reasons. Tesla regularly releases software updates that allow owners to benefit from a variety of free after-sales vehicle upgrades, including updates that give the vehicle new features and improved performance and functionality.

In May 2019, Tesla introduced a new fast charge profile that is aligned with the additional cell physics understanding Tesla has gained through research and analysis over the past 5 years. The new profile educes cone current and is more 'temperature sensitive' than the previous profile. As a result, quick-charge times increased minimally (2 minutes) for optimal conditions, while at a colder initial temperature, quick-charge times increased by up to 15 minutes. This change is a continuous effort to optimize charge, battery performance and life, and your vehicle remains safe.

The latest update of the Tesla User Manuals contains additional information about the peak charge rate of the battery (page 171 Model S/page 203 Model X/page 182 Model 3): "The peak charge rate of the battery may decrease slightly after many rapid charging operations with DC power, such as on superchargers. To ensure maximum range and battery safety, the charging rate is reduced when the battery is too cold, when the battery is almost fully charged or when the condition of the battery changes due to use and wear. These changes in battery condition are caused by the physical characteristics of the battery and over time can increase the total duration of the supercharging process by a few minutes.

Tesla is committed to providing its customers with the safest and best vehicles available. Through regular software updates, Tesla will continue to improve, enhance and maximize the performance and safety of its vehicles. In particular, we are making improvements to preheat the battery in version 2020.8. This will ensure that more charging processes begin with your battery at the optimum temperature. These heating changes will reduce the average charging time for customers by 5 minutes, offsetting the profile change in version 2019.20. As we continue to learn from our vehicles, we will continue to work to optimize charging, battery performance and durability over time for all our vehicles.
 
I am contemplating whether to also file actions against Tesla about my #chargegated S85. Long-distance travel is a no-go, add 3 1/2 hours charging on a 1000km trip to a long drive at it is. My GF is no longer willing to take the Tesla. Even our (old) dog is annoyed by the long and frequent stops. Hence we take a rented / borrowed Diesel car for these trips.

To get the ball rolling I sent a letter of complaint via registered mail to Tesla Switzerland in Zurich. After a few days already I received a call from the local Service Center. They told me, they would like to run a thorough diagnosis on my battery. I will get an eMail to which I shall reply to with dates that fit my schedule. This eMail never showed up. Instead I received a letter, also via certified mail, from my local SeC.

This letter seems to be the official answer to such inquiries, now - since I know of another owner who received the same letter. I translated it from German language to English language. The German language text looks to me also being (badly) translated to from another language, most likely English, since it has some (technical) wording which just does not make sense.

We refer to your letter xxx in which you state that the charge curve was lowered after a software update.
Tesla vehicles are unique in that Tesla continually strives to improve its vehicles by releasing regular software updates for a variety of reasons. Tesla regularly releases software updates that allow owners to benefit from a variety of free after-sales vehicle upgrades, including updates that give the vehicle new features and improved performance and functionality.

In May 2019, Tesla introduced a new fast charge profile that is aligned with the additional cell physics understanding Tesla has gained through research and analysis over the past 5 years. The new profile educes cone current and is more 'temperature sensitive' than the previous profile. As a result, quick-charge times increased minimally (2 minutes) for optimal conditions, while at a colder initial temperature, quick-charge times increased by up to 15 minutes. This change is a continuous effort to optimize charge, battery performance and life, and your vehicle remains safe.

The latest update of the Tesla User Manuals contains additional information about the peak charge rate of the battery (page 171 Model S/page 203 Model X/page 182 Model 3): "The peak charge rate of the battery may decrease slightly after many rapid charging operations with DC power, such as on superchargers. To ensure maximum range and battery safety, the charging rate is reduced when the battery is too cold, when the battery is almost fully charged or when the condition of the battery changes due to use and wear. These changes in battery condition are caused by the physical characteristics of the battery and over time can increase the total duration of the supercharging process by a few minutes.

Tesla is committed to providing its customers with the safest and best vehicles available. Through regular software updates, Tesla will continue to improve, enhance and maximize the performance and safety of its vehicles. In particular, we are making improvements to preheat the battery in version 2020.8. This will ensure that more charging processes begin with your battery at the optimum temperature. These heating changes will reduce the average charging time for customers by 5 minutes, offsetting the profile change in version 2019.20. As we continue to learn from our vehicles, we will continue to work to optimize charging, battery performance and durability over time for all our vehicles.
Funny thing is I have emailed and mailed Tesla many letters and reported to service about chargate, batterygate and drain gate. They treat you like you just bought a model 3 and know nothing about your car. But yeah nevermind me driving it for 6 years now. Smh