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Supercharger - Plano, Texas

Discussion in 'Texas Supercharger locations' started by bollar, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. brkaus

    brkaus Well-Known Member

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    #121 brkaus, Apr 9, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
    I would like to trust the decision maker, but as I watch the decisions being made I have totally lost faith.

    Why? Every time I go to my local Whole Foods that offers free charging, right up front. There are electric (or PHEV) cars parked there. I constantly see the two spots filled with Tesla cars. More recently, I see BMWs and other PHEV cars. Sometimes there are Leafs too!

    Sure, Whole Foods is providing a great service. They are enabling electric cars. Especially the short distance ones that may need a charge to make it through the day.

    The problem? None of them (except the Leafs) are ever plugged in.

    So, sure, "do the right thing and trust the decision maker" are nice in theory.

    I think SpC should be charged at a rate in line with home charging. That turns it back into a rational decision for the users and improves availability for those in need without alternatives.
     
  2. andystj

    andystj S: P957 X: P337

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    #122 andystj, Apr 9, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
    While Elon and Tesla always talked about the SC network as "enabling" long-distance travel, they were consistent about trusting the owners' judgment and rational decision-making on where and when to utilize that feature. It was never restricted to long-distance travel, and it was always understood that local SC use was not only allowed, but that it could make sense in some scenarios. Indeed, if you look at a lot of their talk about Asia, Tesla specifically encouraged local super-charging. When questioned about local SC in terms of the congestion issues that everyone in CA want to talk about, they would state repeatedly that they would supply capacity to account for the contingency of local charging, and owners were free to use the SC network as they see fit. It was sold as part of the economic justification for purchasing the car.

    They started shifting dramatically to discourage local charging around 2015. This continued through 2016 when it became clear that they were not going to allow free supercharging on the Model 3.

    J.B. Straubel from the 6/1/16 Shareholder's Meeting to be super interesting:

    “It also pains us to see people mis-valuing their time at charging stations so often, it is far more convenient and faster for you overall to charge at home or at work. It takes one second to plug in, you don’t have to go to a separate location and wait for the car to be there. Time and time again, we see people drive to Supercharger stations, wait there for 30 minutes and drive to a different destination. And if they do their math – and they value their time – it makes no sense.”

    I find this quote patronizing, and it misunderstands the complexity of the calculus undertaken by Tesla drivers. Perhaps the people doing local charging are using that time for meditation; perhaps they are using the time charging to avoid an argument with a spouse; perhaps the kids are too noisy and they want to listen to a podcast; perhaps they like the coffee at the shop next door; perhaps the SC provides a quiet place to catch up on emails. . .

    Clearly, Elon and Tesla did not account for the calculus correctly. That doesn't make people doing what they were encouraged to do free-loaders. Tesla has now implicitly acknowledged their miscalculation and have made a several key adjustments. The prohibition of commercial use; Idle fees; charging for SC on the Model 3; Urban chargers; supplementing the level 2 destination charger network is another one.


    That is why I strongly support Idle fees at SC locations.
    As far as the close parking at Whole Foods, those people are just being jerks. Perhaps it's rational to take the closest spot, but it's directly analogous to an able-bodied person parking in a disabled parking spot because they are driving someone else's car that has disabled plates. We have a Nissan Leaf, and my son has been blocked from a needed charge by cars (typically hybrids) who thought it would be nice to park in the closest spot.

    I completely support Tesla changing policies to do away with free super-charging going forward. Where it was included as a feature, the user should not be judged for using it.
     
  3. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    More of a philosophical difference between making someone who NEEDS to charge wait for you to make your way back to an idle car and shaving a few dollars off your electric bill. The end result is the same, congested superchargers.
     
  4. andystj

    andystj S: P957 X: P337

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    I do understand the experience in CA of people having to wait for stalls. That is generally not yet the case here in Texas, and it is certainly not the case at this Plano location with 12 Urban-Style chargers.

    I have seen a problem in San Marcos, Texas where the SC is at an Outlet Mall. The location is on an important intercity route (I-35 between Dallas and San Antonio), but it is also a popular shopping location at certain times of the year, and the parking lot can get very congested. In that case, people would drive their Tesla to shop and use the SC as the most convenient parking spot. Punitive Idle fees can help solve that problem, but a much better solution would be to NOT put SCs at Outlet Malls.

    Other than the Mall Shopper phenomenon, my guess is that the local charger is a scapegoat to general capacity issues in CA. If the SC is likely to be congested, that will definitely affect the locals' decision-making calculus.

    Free & Congested < Free & Convenient
    so
    Free & Convenient>Cheap & Convenient often falls by the wayside.
     
  5. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    I thought so too... until I waited at Gilroy on my way through CA. ~90% of the people there were there to shave a few $$$ off their electric bill. That's not a scape goat... that's THE problem. So a bunch of free loading 'wealthy' people are the reason less wealthy model 3 owners don't get to enjoy free road trips...

    I really wish that instead of charging for ALL supercharging they just charged EVERYONE for supercharging <50 miles of where the car spends >50% of its time parked.
     
    • Love x 1
  6. PLUS EV

    PLUS EV Running on Empty

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    How do you know this? Did you strap them to a polygraph and interview them?
     
  7. brkaus

    brkaus Well-Known Member

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    I just wish they charged everyone a fair price. I like the idea of some included annual allocation for the top of the line cars.

    There is no good solution for the jerks. My wife is a doctor and people are begging her for handicap plates for the stupidest of reasons.
     
  8. andystj

    andystj S: P957 X: P337

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    Sorry all. I did not mean to get this thread hijacked away from the Plano SC and down the never-ending debate about local Super Charging.

    The good news:
    • Plano SC is open.
    • There are 12 Urban SC Stalls.
      • None are pull through, but one is pull in.
      • 72 KW max, but power is dedicated and not shared between stalls.
    • The location is the top floor of the parking lot at Parkland and Lois Lane
    • A true plethora of dining options ranging from
      • Bob's Steak and Chop House or Capital Grille
      • Potbelly Sandwich Shop and Dunkin Donuts
      • Just about anything in between
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  9. BrandonR22

    BrandonR22 Member

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    What the hell is this....
     

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  10. TMC Bubba

    TMC Bubba Member

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    Temporary tag = new owner? At least he wasn’t blocking charging stalls. People do amaze me.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. BrandonR22

    BrandonR22 Member

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    It was an out of state tag too. The weird thing about it was his behavior..... when he unplugged he kept STARING at me and the other X that was next to me.. several times. Then, as he’s driving down the ramp he looks back at us again while driving away.... like he’s never seen a Tesla before.... it was weird.
     
  12. Cnasty

    Cnasty Active Member

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    You are spending way too much time at that Supercharger my friend ;)
     
    • Funny x 1
  13. Ryan Webb

    Ryan Webb Member

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    He's probably thinking "Why are these idiots BACKED into the charging spots??" :)
     
    • Funny x 2
  14. BrandonR22

    BrandonR22 Member

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    I go down to Henry’s Tavern and have a beer... don’t judge! lol.
    And HA! That’s exactly what I was thinking.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. NateGordonJr

    NateGordonJr Member

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    I’ve been looking to confirm this, so I greatly appreciate the info! I arrived with a low SOC and thus was expecting the high KW to start out but after only getting 72 I was a little worried. And it didn’t help that I also didn’t know they aren’t shared stalls, so when ppl kept parking right next to me instead of skipping one I was like please nooo :( lol
    Got a good candid out of it though. Really liked the location!
    EDF7896E-B6A1-45CE-B142-BDC7E254C9C3.jpeg 59A7EBBD-B796-428D-A01B-4E10A01C5EB7.jpeg
     
  16. arcus

    arcus Active Member

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    Even if they were shared, you don't need to worry since you started charging first.
     
  17. achilles992000

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    I hope I don't become an urban charger addict.they are so fun to use.
    Good charging rate.
    I found 25-30 mins enough for me.

    I get so excited when my car is juiced.

    Makes the Tesla experience so much better.
    And Good for Legacy shops too. Spent money there that I would have spent elsewhere.
     
    • Like x 2
  18. NateGordonJr

    NateGordonJr Member

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    That's interesting because everyone has always said it's not about who arrives first at 'shared stalls' but who has the lowest charge. So if I'm at 40% and someone arrives at 15% and shares with me, my charge rate will drop drastically to accomodate them. Has this changed?
     
  19. TMC Bubba

    TMC Bubba Member

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    No, it’s always been who arrives first. The 120 kW is divided into four parts of 30 kW each. If you’re charging at 90 kW and someone new arrives and plugs into the pair, you continue to receive 90 kW while the newcomer gets 30 kW. But if you’re charging at 110 kW when he arrives, you will drop to 90 kW so he can get 30. Your charge rate declines as your SOC increases. When your rate drops below 60, the newcomer gets another 30 kW. And so on. Tesla did it that way to maximize throughput (#cars/hour).
     
    • Informative x 3
  20. Electroman

    Electroman Well-Known Member

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    Irrespective of what your charge state is, if you plug in first in a shared stall, you will get all the charge rate that your car can handle, and only the remaining will be available for the 2nd one to plug in. Basically the 2nd person has no effect on your charge rate
     

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