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Superchargers Visited

Discussion in 'Wiki' started by Wiki, Mar 2, 2014.

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  1. JSergeant

    JSergeant Member

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    I in turn generally go by what blueshift does on Supercharge.info
     
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  2. JSergeant

    JSergeant Member

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  3. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    I saw that one appear as well and messaged a friend of mine who said it is ~2.5 miles from his Office -- so likely it would take 30-45 minutes for him to get there in typical traffic. Ha ! Once I noticed the photo and Street View and saw it was a garage similar to what you found recently, I might plan to accidentally miss this one until I have a need to be in that area. I wonder if they will let you park for free if you are only there for 30 seconds and claim your car isn't charging (but it did) and then leave. Hmmm.
     
  4. Chuq

    Chuq Active Member

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    Supercharge.info generally uses the Tesla official name, but of course where construction/permit sites are concerned it falls back to crowdsourcing e.g. whatever the locals call it!

    Interesting thing with your Blue Ash, OH example - I down own a Tesla (yet!) so my official Tesla info comes from the website - they still call it Cincinnati there!

    upload_2018-2-22_20-4-17.png

    upload_2018-2-22_20-5-42.png
     
  5. Half Dollar Bill

    Half Dollar Bill Traveller, teacher, poet, accountant

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    And the nav calls it "Sin Sa NNatti". :)
     
  6. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    Maybe I can suggest to blueshift to add a "Date modified" column to the supercharge.info Data page so I don't have to check every few weeks if a previously visited supercharger site had a name change. Or maybe a column with any previous names for a location although I bet that happens very rarely.

    I sometimes to a batch export of that data and if I weren't aware of the Cincy area then I might think a "Cincinnati" charger is the new one when in fact it is the same as the previous "Blue Ash" one.

    Along those lines, I don't see the original Aurora, IL location listed in the data but I was lucky enough to visit that for the short time it was there before the official install in North Aurora, IL. I don't know how many other sites have been closed or moved and could be listed in the dataset. Again, I'm sure that happens very rarely.
     
  7. Barry

    Barry Active Member

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    Not to mention the tolls to get on the island.
     
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  8. Half Dollar Bill

    Half Dollar Bill Traveller, teacher, poet, accountant

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    #968 Half Dollar Bill, Feb 22, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
    Unofficial Maintainer Note:
    With the attention Elon Bear Elon Bear across Europe (and beyond) has been getting on the European thread about his travels I felt a little guilty and decided to give the Flat Stanley thread Our 7-Year-Old Hopes His “Tesla Flat Stanley” Can Visit Every Supercharger a little love. The official project stopped with 80'ish chargers but folks had posted pictures that weren't counted, so I updated the count. And it turns out Flat Stanley was the 2nd Centurian!
    I added him to the board and adjusted the rank of others that were added after him, so I hope I didn't create any bad feelings.
     
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  9. Graffi

    Graffi Member

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    Kind of a side issue, but why in the world would Tesla go through the time, effort, and MONEY to install a Supercharger in a place that would charge users $25 or more to get a charge. Heck, even charging $10 or more to get a charge. It would seem to me that a Destination Charger would meet those needs as the only people using them would be someone that has to park and may as well add electrons while they are parked there in the first place. I can not see Tesla owners on a trip would plan for this stop when they can route themselves to a area with easier traffic and no parking fee to charge.

    They can install Superchargers in these EXPENSIVE to park garages that will probably get little use but can not install one along I-10 in west Texas to fill the gap from Ozona to Van Horn, somewhere near Fort Stockton. Who at Tesla plans these things???
     
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  10. Big Earl

    Big Earl Member

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    #970 Big Earl, Feb 22, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
    Nobody would use it on a trip. People who commute to NYC from outside of the city will use it. When I was in Manhattan for two weeks twelve years ago, it wasn't uncommon to see parking lots charging $25 or more for the first hour, depending on where they were located. A Tesla Supercharger is an added amenity for these lots, setting them apart from the rest.

    Keep in mind a lot of these parking lots have very expensive car lifts for stacking vehicles two, three, or four high. Others are in buildings with car elevators. Nothing about parking in Manhattan is cheap.

    USA Pictures photos : New York, New-york

     
  11. Bighorn

    Bighorn Former Top Supercharger

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    Tesla recently started advertising their new urban superchargers that aren't intended for travelers. Boston and Chicago were the initial ones. This is one of them I suspect. My initial reaction to them was to not include them in the supercharger challenge because of the expense and because their intent was to serve a different cohort. I sort of lost that battle here and did end up charging in a downtown Chicago parking garage last month. Fortunately the $20 fee for the first hour was just $5 when I did it, maybe because it was off hours?
     
  12. JSergeant

    JSergeant Member

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    A friend of mine in NYC checked it out - here's his report:

    ..so I walked over to the Mott Street Supercharging site today..

    http://postmyimage.com/img2/822_IMG_8583.jpg

    ..unfortunately, it's within the garage, and after asking the boss, discovered that the chargers are available only to monthly users..

    ..no public access, or even a daily customer..

    ..not sure how, or why it's considered a SC site..

    ..but I did manage to add 4200 steps toward my daily average, 1.4 miles..

    ..so that was good.. :)

    ..for what it's worth, your monthly parking charge would be $472 bucks, unless you want to 'self park' and take your keys, that would cost you $708..
     
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  13. pdxrajiv

    pdxrajiv Member

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    Is it possible that these "expensive to charge" SC sites are really not the same as "real" SC sites (that The Cheapskate Me likes)?
    Maybe they are a collaboration between Tesla and the site owner. The site owner buys the equipment from Tesla, installs it, and supplies the electricity for it, and Tesla advertises it on their NAV screen and web site.
    That would seem like a win-win for both the site owner and Tesla.

    Maybe I should apply at Tesla for a Business Development position? No! Keep your day job, kid.

    As an owner, I would appreciate if Tesla identified the "expensive" SC sites with a hint about the cost, especially on the NAV screen.
    It would be terrible if the site owner decided to use dynamic pricing for charging based on your SOC as you drive up :eek:.
     
  14. JSergeant

    JSergeant Member

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    Maybe we should revisit that discussion in view of the Mott Street SpC? Maybe exclude SpC's which charge above a certain threshold for parking? Like above $5 - that would exclude the Jersey City one that I just visited.
     
  15. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    #975 Darren S, Feb 23, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018

    I agree that the Urban supercharger locations should be noted differently somehow as they are clearly meant for Urban use and not all-out road trip use while traveling on the Interstate and Turnpike and Freeway. I'd say they can be counted but maybe separately such as "148 SCs and 3 Urban SCs" or similar.

    For all we know, L.A. will have 50 Urban SCs at some point and someone living there could rocket up to the 150 charger count just by driving from San Fran to San Diego. I would probably want that person to split out the Urban counts to make things a bit more apples-to-apples. I say you can still count Chicago's Urban SC and others, Bighorn, but maybe be prepared to list it as a separate count. Dunno - that's the fun of having folks suggest changes to the rules and game.

    Also, this is a non-public access supercharger per Jsergeant's friend so this should then fall under the same discussion as Service Center superchargers like Cleveland where that one is no longer listed as a "public" supercharger. You are more than welcome to try and visit and add it to the list but I feel it shouldn't be in the list of "publicly accessible" superchargers.



    I'm planning a trip in another week or so and am hoping to stop at the Scottsdale supercharger since I don't have that one. This is, in fact, an Urban supercharger location but is clearly not in an inner-city location like NYC, Chicago, and Boston. The trip from Casa Grande, AZ to Wickenburg, AZ is 115 miles but has an 1,100 ft elevation climb in the last 50 miles so that leg could consume 190-200 miles of range for many vehicles and that would either require a full charge at Casa Grande (not advisable) or a stop at the Scottsdale (Urban) supercharger (recommended). The current route has the Scottsdale charger just 7 miles off the route and that's about as far as the Harrisburg, PA (actual) Supercharger location is between the PA Turnpike and I-81.

    So perhaps counting it by the style is not the way to go but based on location so inner-city / downtown / parking garages / etc. should be listed separately. I skipped the Normal, IL on a previous trip because it WAS in a parking garage that required payment (after 1 hr but I needed a full charge at Champaign, IL so had no need to stop at Normal after 50 miles). It is a full Supercharger location because in June 2013 they didn't have Urban designs but that now means that I have to include that since it is on the official list and is free and is a non-Urban charger.

    Riverside, CA Urban supercharger is 1,500 ft from I-10 so why isn't that one a full supercharger location? No clue.

    That's why I feel some of these should be listed as optional or separately if they are not in free / publicly accessible areas. I'm several years late to the game so I have to follow the rules and game that was already created but those are some of my thoughts.
     
  16. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    I say that ANY charge to park should exclude it as a "free supercharger location" since it is clearly not free and exceptions can be discussed. Cost of living is vastly different and maybe North Dakota has very very very cheap parking rates and it is $3.50 per day or something in L.A. might be $4.50 PER MINUTE and you only need to plug in for 1 second (since the rules are vague about this) but could park in L.A. and leave for $4.50. Maybe Alaska or Canada would charge $25 per any time which would end up excluding potentially a vast number of them or having them listed separately so I feel it is a worthwhile discussion.

    But I'd say that any location that charges to park whether it is a parking garage, shopping mall, hotel, restaurant, etc. should somehow be listed / counted separately.

    For example, Chattanooga, TN supercharger is in the Airport's Long Term Parking but you get 2 hrs free so if you stay over 2 hrs then you will pay but it has an option for free parking so this one should be counted as "free" and you just need to remember to leave within 2 hrs. Normal, IL is free for the first hour so it's allowed on the "free" list and you just need to keep your wits about you and mind the time.

    Also, Birmingham, AL is in a required-to-pay-to-park parking lot but if you can get the parking ticket validated in the nearby restaurants or stores then it is free. IF, however, you arrive in the dead of night then nothing is open to buy a snack and get it validated so you'll have to pay. I'd like to see the Birmingham location excluded or listed separately just like a downtown NYC / Chicago / Boston location. I've been to the Birmingham location so I get to count it on whichever list it lands so it's not as much of an issue but I really don't know that I'll ever park in the Manhattan garage (or Chicago or Boston) just to count it on the list as it is a nightmare of traffic just to get to it, pay, tolls to get to the place, etc.

    If you live / work in the area then by all means visit and count it but definitely feel it should somehow be listed separately. There will eventually be one in Pittsburgh, PA and that isn't far away so I'll make a visit to it even if it is in a pay parking garage but would agree that someone traveling through from out-of-state would most likely want to avoid it and shouldn't really get penalized for missing it.
     
  17. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    HERE ! HERE !!! ... because I'm planning this exact route in a few weeks and will have to detour 75 miles or 90 minutes to Midland, TX + ~45 minutes charging to make it up the ~2,000 ft of vertical elevation in the last 100 miles of the 180-mile leg. That Fort Stockton, TX location is similar to the Beckley (Mt Hope), WV one that was built but never active for many months but Fort Stockton is worse as it is at 450 days of Permit status (and Pescos, TX is at 110 days of Permit status).
     
  18. JSergeant

    JSergeant Member

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    Darren:
    You shouldn't need to go via Midland unless the wind is against you. I did Ozona to Van Horn last September in an S90D, starting with 99% charge and arrived with 11% or 33 miles of rated range left. I kept the average speed to 63, 61 and 65 on the three segments (I stopped a couple of times for bathroom and leg-stretching, but no intermediate charging.) Here's a screenshot of my TeslaFi log for that trip:

    Ozona to Van Horn.JPG
     
  19. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    Well actually, my S90D only has a 268-mile max range charge or about 73.0 kWh available instead of 290+ miles or 81.0 kWh due to battery degradation. I really don't like waiting 2 hrs for an absolutely full charge unless absolutely necessary (let alone 90 minutes for a ~95% charge) so I'll most likely divert to Midland. I didn't include the initial charge at Ozona above but that would have made the direct route 228 miles / 3.5 hrs + 2.0 hrs charging at Ozona or 5.5 hrs total instead of no more than 5.0 hrs via Midland.

    I'll be making this trip without an overnight stay so I really don't like to get >70% charges as it just takes so much longer after 75% that it is usually not worth it if the next charger can be reached with 50-60% charge or if I can go 5 mph under the speed limit and make it there 15 minutes slower but charging the extra range would take (often) 30 minutes longer so driving just a little slower sometimes saves me 15 minutes on a 100-150 mile leg.

    I still think it will definitely be quicker to go the 305 miles / 4.0 hrs via Midland + 15 minutes charging in Ozona + 45 minutes in Midland (maybe just 30 minutes here) or no more than 5.0 hrs total but zero range anxiety and won't have to drive 10-15 mph under the speed limit on I-10. That saves me 30 minutes instantly from the quick math of the route.

    I see that it is an 80 mph speed limit and you were cruising at no more than 65 mph for the first 90 miles and then no more than 62 miles for 40 miles in the middle. 15 mph is nearly 20% below the max limit and that's a bit slow for me when the big trucks are most likely cruising at 75-80 mph.
     
  20. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    #980 Darren S, Feb 23, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
    Thanks, though, for the Teslafi stats as I use that as well and can relate. Let me look at those and do a quick rundown of the route instead of guessing what it will be like.

    Don't forget ... I don't have Midland yet so a short detour for zero range anxiety AND get a new-to-me charger? That's a win-win so it will probably be the route I take.

    You used 71.93 kWh for your trip and I only have 73.0 kWh available so that would leave me just 1.07 kWh or just a few miles and a little too close when, as you said, wind might be more than your trip or if I go any faster than your speed so it's a bit too close for comfort when there is very little around for options aside from a 14-50 spot along I-10 for some safety range charging if needed. I'll be around 70k miles in 23 months when I get down to TX so the degradation really drops quickly when you rack up the miles in a short time.

    You drove 229.55 miles and used 254.24 miles or 90.3% efficiency while climbing up 1,795 ft so that is some great efficiency. Again, I don't think I'll attempt the direct route (but I might just to see what numbers I can get) but at those temps and elevation climbs you did fantastic!

    I'm not sure I agree with the stats on the last leg but agree with the first 2 legs. I get a much higher avg speed but maybe you can validate that somehow. 229.55 miles in 3.4 hrs = 67.5 mph avg and none of your 3 legs were higher than 67.5 mph so I don't know how those numbers all jive but maybe I'm doing something wrong. Most of the time the Teslafi info is dead-on accurate but sometimes I've seen some anomalies.

    If it is missing 12.4 miles on the last leg then at 65 mph this would take 11.4 minutes. Adding 11.4 minutes to the 204 minutes listed in the stats is 215.4 minutes or 3.59 hrs. 229.55 miles in 3.59 hrs is now 63.9 mph avg and probably the right answer instead of 67.5 mph.

    > Ozona to Fort Stockton; 93.35 miles in 1.466 hrs is 63.6 mph
    > Rest Area to Rest Area; 40.4 miles in 0.650 hrs is 62.1 mph
    > Fort Stockton to Van Horn; 95.8 miles in 1.283 hrs is 74.6 mph not 65 mph like your stats show
    (or 65 mi/hr * 1.283 hr = 83.4 miles not 95.8 miles)​


    Just a quick peek at some similar stats but the run from Ogallala to Brush is a climb of 1,025 ft and then Brush to Denver is another 1,150 ft. This isn't meant to be a show off but just trying to find a trip where I had similar Avg speeds and similar Max speeds and similar Elevation gain and similar Miles driven. My temps were swapped so my Inside temp was your Outside temp and my Outside temp was your Inside temp.

    You probably had a bit of a headwind and I might not have had any because the Wh/mi are quite a bit different. The Ozona - Van Horn trip will be a last-minute decision after looking at the wind and temps and my SOC. Maybe it will work out that I'll spend the night in Ozona and have a 100% charge and can attempt the run but otherwise I'll just divert to Midland and add another charger (and an area I'll probably not visit again for a year so hitting an unscheduled one is fine with me).

    Edit: I looked at the Trip Meter from the car on these legs and updated the Wh/mi and kWh used to the actual results (updated below with the car's trip meter results).

    Fort Stockton to Van Horn_trip comparison.jpg
     
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