Suspension Problem on Model S

[gpcordaro]

It is not the money. When three out of four control arms need replaced in just 70,000 miles, it is a design flaw. I just want Tesla to do the right thing, peoples lives are at stake. I first posted here to warn the Tesla owners of the risk. Now they have been informed, they can take it for what it is worth.

 

[JRP3]

When three out of four control arms need replaced in just 70,000 miles, it is a design flaw.

Probably, or a batch of parts under spec. If just one went bad it would be an isolated incident, but as I said earlier these items simply should not be failing this early, on any vehicle, but certainly not a vehicle in this price range, and certainly not from a company that wants to build the safest vehicles in the world. Were I in gp's position I might have just taken the deal but I also understand why he did not. Tesla needs to do better in these situations.

 

[techmaven]

It is not the money. When three out of four control arms need replaced in just 70,000 miles, it is a design flaw. I just want Tesla to do the right thing, peoples lives are at stake. I first posted here to warn the Tesla owners of the risk. Now they have been informed, they can take it for what it is worth.

I am curious, was this vehicle inspected by Tesla annually?

 

[Az_Rael]

I am curious, was this vehicle inspected by Tesla annually?

That would help the OP's case against Tesla if it was. How does something like that go un-noticed by the service department for so long?

 

[JRP3]

Besides the obvious trolling from a puppet accounts of "Keef," I have not heard of many failures that you're describing. Tesla sure seems to think that the issue is a factor of usage. I would argue that the fact that nearly all of yours having similar wear issues bolsters this assessment. Or, I guess we could assume that all of the control arms on your car were out of spec instead, and that it's a wider issue, but then we'd see more similar issues reported...which we are not.

I've had 4wd trucks that I took off road and through deep water for years that didn't have the corrosion and lack of grease shown in the OP's pics. What "usage" do you think caused this to happen? Is driving a car in Pennsylvania out of spec for a Model S?

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I've had 4wd trucks that I took off road and through deep water for years that didn't have the corrosion and lack of grease shown in the OP's pics. What "usage" do you think caused this to happen? Is driving a car in Pennsylvania out of spec for a Model S?

No idea, and it's not up to me to find out. I'm simply saying the likelihood is greater that it's from his usage, than there being a widespread problem, or that he just got "unluckly" and got 3 out of spec parts.

I don't think putting forth anecdotal evidence is going to be particularly helpful in determining fault.

You're welcome to disagree, of course.

 

[brianman]

If he hasn't already burned the bridge (directly with Tesla and via these posts), my suggestion would be...

Continue the conversation with Tesla and request an additional accomodation: a formal deep investigation into the cause of the damage and a report that can be posted publicly to allow others to be aware in the interest of public safety. This is a reasonable request and doesn't require Tesla to acknowledge wrongdoing.

 

[JRP3]

I don't think putting forth anecdotal evidence is going to be particularly helpful in determining fault.

It's not really anecdotal, the majority of vehicles, no matter how they are used, don't have ball joints falling apart at 70K miles. I'd say the burden is on Tesla to provide evidence that his usage was somehow out of the norm. Also, I never said it was a widespread problem.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

It's not really anecdotal, the majority of vehicles, no matter how they are used, don't have ball joints falling apart at 70K miles. I'd say the burden is on Tesla to provide evidence that his usage was somehow out of the norm. Also, I never said it was a widespread problem.

I agree, it's abnormal wear and tear on the ball joints, that hasn't been reported by other owners. So, the possibilities are:

1. Out of spec parts
2. Usage out of the norm.

Since the vehicle has nearly all four ball joints prematurely worn, and because other owners haven't reported similar issues, then it would appear the liklihood is higher that something in the way the OP has been using his car has caused the pre-mature wear...a determination the SC also made.

Whether you disagree with the SC determination, as the OP, doesn't mean that his usage isn't the most likely cause based on current evidence.

I do agree that the SC will probably need to "prove" their case. My point is simply that their case appears pretty strong. Certainly stronger than relying on anecdotal (which you are in fact using) evidence, and malicious trolling by "Keef."

 

[JRP3]

I have no tolerance for "Keef" and his claims, so not really relevant to the discussion. I do have experience with many vehicles involved in many different usage patterns, many of them non standard usage patterns. My understanding of vehicles, mechanics, and materials, leads me to believe there are no usage patterns likely to cause this problems without causing extensive problems elsewhere in the vehicle which would be evident. I would say their case is actually quite weak without other evidence of severe abuse.

What probably happened was the ball joints were under lubed and/or had faulty seals, and the use of road salt in PA exacerbated the issue in ways that might not be seen in other areas of the country, or other countries. So in fact there could have been a small batch of faulty parts but only a small number of that batch ended up in areas that made the problem progress to the point of failure.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

What probably happened was the ball joints were under lubed and/or had faulty seals, and the use of road salt in PA exacerbated the issue in ways that might not be seen in other areas of the country, or other countries. So in fact there could have been a small batch of faulty parts but only a small number of that batch ended up in areas that made the problem progress to the point of failure.

Like I said, that's why I'm saying the likelihood is higher based on current evidence. I was not implying that that meant the above wasn't a possibility.

There are lot of variables here...but I would have to assume the SC also would consider the above. Anything else is conjecture at this point...but people are running with it.

 

[Zaphod]

I'm going to stay out of the finger pointing and blame (although I have leanings one way over the other), but how could something like these ball joints progress to this point with no one noticing? As degraded as they are, surely there would have to be some increased noises or vibrations or something to demonstrate that clearly something was wrong.

 

[HyperMiler]

At any rate, a proper repair approach with some degree of preventive maintenance in my thinking is swapping out all similar ball joints on both sides, as Tesla is
proposing.

The vehicle has been operated under what would probably be called "off road conditions" on a limited but regular basis?

 

[James Anders]

It's not like this is an off road vehicle. It's a very odd failure mode to be sure.

 

[sorka]

I have owned my Model S since May of 2013 and truly love the car. With that said, I must tell everyone about a recent problem I experienced this past Sunday while driving on a back road at a very low rate of speed, about 5 MPH. The road was rough so my air ride was at it max lift. As I was proceeding down a steep hill I heard a snap and felt my steering wheel pull to the left. I stopped the car for further inspection only to discover that my left front hub assembly separated from the upper control arm. Needless to say the car was inoperable due to a loss of steering. Thank goodness I was not traveling at a high rate of speed. This could of been a tragic accident causing injury or even death.
I contacted Tesla and they towed the car to a service center. They just informed that this is not covered under warranty, stating that the cause was due to normal wear and tear. I have owned many cars in my life and have never experienced such a failure. My car has been driven 73000 miles.

Has anyone experienced this failure on their car?

Please report this to the NHTSA:

File a Vehicle Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

 

[Doug_G]

A number of additional posts have been moved to snippiness

Important note: If you think someone is trolling, please click the REPORT button and let the moderators know. Do NOT post a message accusing them of being a troll, because then YOU are in violation of the forum rules - that is considered a personal attack.

I'm trying to strike some kind of balance that allows the relevant discussion to continue while removing the crap. This makes a lot of work for me, which means I get grouchy, which means the snipping threshold gets lower and lower. So if you want to continue this conversation, please remember to be polite and avoid personal attacks and rudeness.

Thanks.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

A number of additional posts have been moved to snippiness

Important note: If you think someone is trolling, please click the REPORT button and let the moderators know. Do NOT post a message accusing them of being a troll, because then YOU are in violation of the forum rules - that is considered a personal attack.

I'm trying to strike some kind of balance that allows the relevant discussion to continue while removing the crap. This makes a lot of work for me, which means I get grouchy, which means the snipping threshold gets lower and lower. So if you want to continue this conversation, please remember to be polite and avoid personal attacks and rudeness.

Thanks.

Interesting. They were clearly *redacted* and banned for it. Were banned at the time of using the term *redacted*, and said term was used as a descriptor for their actions.

Not sure I understand your explanation, but I shall try to use other terminology to describe the actions related to the term that cannot be discussed.

 

[Spidy]

Mods can you maybe remove those Lucille &Loosewheel post and the replies to those which aren't relevant to the topic or move them in some other closed thread if? Pretty annoying to catch up on the topic and having to read through 5 pages of that guy making stuff up and I can't even block him now that he is banned...

 

[TSLA Pilot]

We are HUGE Tesla/Elon fans, but have to concur that the OP's situation is completely unacceptable.

Barring some highly unlikely "story" that the OP has not shared and that we are not privy to, it appears that we have a massive failure on a critical suspension part. Let me perfectly clear:

PEOPLE WILL DIE FROM FAILURES LIKE THIS.​

The OP was lucky, beyond lucky, that this occurred at very low speed.

As for the repeated, "Do you have the extended warranty?" questions--please stop them. Suspension components aren't covered by the ESA, IIRC. (And please post if I'm wrong this.)

The much bigger issues:

1. The absolutely absurd premise of expecting the customer to pay for this design or manufacturing defect--he needs a loaner, and an immediate apology from a Tesla senior executive, and,

2. The cost of the upcoming recall as this is highly unlikely to be an isolated incident as the fleet ages. (But let's hope the part supplier will shoulder much or all of this cost?)​

We have purchased FIVE Model S's thus far.

If the OP's story is accurate, and we suspect it is, we are disgusted with Tesla.

This is not the first time Tesla's middle-management/CEO "filters" simply do NOT "get it" when it comes to safety concerns--after five of these cars we may have to post here to share how we know this to be the case . . . .

Elon: PLEASE FIX THIS NOW. (AS IN "YESTERDAY.")

Thanks.

 

[gpcordaro]

This is my last post as Tesla and I have come to terms. I am not at liberty to discuss our

At any rate, a proper repair approach with some degree of preventive maintenance in my thinking is swapping out all similar ball joints on both sides, as Tesla is
proposing.

The vehicle has been operated under what would probably be called "off road conditions" on a limited but regular basis?

That is a absurd statement. The car was never used as an off road vehicle. Most of the 70 thousand mile are highway driving.