I honestly think he might have some kind of mental disorder. I recognize some of the behaviors of OCD, at least, in his posts. I also know that interacting with a person like that in any way almost always just makes them worse. It's very sad.
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I'm glad that there's been a solution for you. I just don't understand what Tesla hopes to achieve with these NDAs. Everyone knows that your car suffered a serious failure and that Tesla picked up all or most of the cost. The NDA creates the impression that they want to hide something when there really isn't much left to hide.
i don't know that i would call this 'normal' wear and tear--maybe accelerated wear due to loss of lubrication in the ball joint. Could also be some galvanic action.
Don't know that it is a design 'defect' or maybe just a poor design choice--hard to know.
i couldn't find any pictures of the internals of the joint in questions, but the design sure looks similar to the mercedes benz upper control arm and joint:
The MB ball joint is bolted to the UCA, whereas it looks like the TM is riveted:
There is a yellow plastic grease cup and a black plastic slider cup in the MB joints, likely to be something similar in TM.
Once the barrel plastic slider wears thru you have metal-to-metal contact in addition to several dissimilar metal interfaces, steel to steel (different steels) and steel to aluminum, add some salty water to a sliding metal contact and something is gonna wear fast. Everytime you turn the steering wheel this ball rotates in the joint.
Don't know that it is a design 'defect' or maybe just a poor design choice--hard to know.
i couldn't find any pictures of the internals of the joint in questions, but the design sure looks similar to the mercedes benz upper control arm and joint:
The MB ball joint is bolted to the UCA, whereas it looks like the TM is riveted:
There is a yellow plastic grease cup and a black plastic slider cup in the MB joints, likely to be something similar in TM.
Once the barrel plastic slider wears thru you have metal-to-metal contact in addition to several dissimilar metal interfaces, steel to steel (different steels) and steel to aluminum, add some salty water to a sliding metal contact and something is gonna wear fast. Everytime you turn the steering wheel this ball rotates in the joint.
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HyperMiler
Member
As far as I understand, there has been a service center activity in some earlier VIN numbers because of the rubber casing of that joint touching the inner fender housing, and releasing grease / allowing dirt in. As Kennybobby states, lack of lubrication may lead to such results, especially in that spray exposed location.
As you all know I can not speak as to the agreement that Tesla and I signed. I can only say that this incident was reported to NHTSA and there is an on going investigation. For safety sake and that of Tesla I hope this is a one off incident. Watch this video that I posted on youtube and you be the judge if this is normal wear and tear at 70K miles.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
What opinion to expect people to form without having knowledge of the way your vehicle was treated. Most would agree it's abnormal wear for the mileage...so did Tesla.
*shrugs*
Imply what you like, but I know that most of the miles driven where highway miles. I have no ax to grind with Tesla, I am a fan, only informing people so they can get theirs checked, and maybe save a life or two.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
MassModel3
Member
I just have to wonder why so many tesla's are loosing their wheels............................
Tesla -Whompy Wheels
it is worth some discussion. At lease NHTSA has my parts for inspection.
Tesla -Whompy Wheels
it is worth some discussion. At lease NHTSA has my parts for inspection.
Whelp, convinced me. Our wheels are flying off all over the place.
OP your car is especially dangerous. You must sell it immediately.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
I'm not sure what else to tell you. Keef got you hook line and sinker. I didn't actually think his fabricated nonsense was reeling anyone in...clearly I gave people too much credit.
It was not Keef that got me, it was the fact that I lost my wheel. Thank goodness it was at a low rate of speed. It is very obvious to me by some of the pictures on flicker that the same thing happened to those cars, just at a higher rate of speed.Look at the front end damage to some of the cars. I appears that all the damage was caused by the wheel coming lose and smaching the quarter panals, not a collision impact. JMHO
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
You're welcome to believe whatever you want, Sir. Of course, looking at pictures clearly gives you an idea of the actions that preceded them...and most helpful when someone already plants an idea of what occurred.
Almost all those pictures are of salvage Teslas after severe accidents. Suspension failure is the result, not the cause. This is the case on any car. Collision forces exceed the design strength of the suspension components by many times over, and it comes apart.
That being said, I think there's some bad metallurgy in some of the lower ball joints.
That being said, I think there's some bad metallurgy in some of the lower ball joints.
Peter_M
Member
Just to add a data point. I had a squeaking/creaking sound in the front end at low speed when going over bumps or when turning the wheel. The noise was there for a few months, at first very rarely, then progressively worse. I called Tesla, they towed my car to the service centre and replaced both lower aft front control arms under warranty. The parts they replaced were:
I had a ball joint fail on another car a few years ago (Acura TL) and there were much more serious warning signs, including the creaking sound but also stiff steering and the wheel not returning to centre on its own after a turn. I had an appointment to get it fixed, unfortunately the day after it failed. All the mechanics and tow truck drivers I talked to about both cars said that ball joints don't tend to break at high speed; they usually fail at low speed when making a turn. That's what I experienced - I had just done a 2-hour highway drive followed by about 2 hours of driving on good gravel roads at around 70km/h, but it failed just as I slowed down and turned into a driveway. I don't know if that's by design, but it seems to be the way it goes.
FRONT SUSPENSION AFT LINK ASSEMBLY (1048951-00-B)
NUTM M14-2.00 ZINC ALUMINUM (1004356-00-B)
WASHER, NORDLOCK, 15.2x30.7x3.4(1033093-00-A)
Problem solved and I'm very happy with Tesla's response.NUTM M14-2.00 ZINC ALUMINUM (1004356-00-B)
WASHER, NORDLOCK, 15.2x30.7x3.4(1033093-00-A)
I had a ball joint fail on another car a few years ago (Acura TL) and there were much more serious warning signs, including the creaking sound but also stiff steering and the wheel not returning to centre on its own after a turn. I had an appointment to get it fixed, unfortunately the day after it failed. All the mechanics and tow truck drivers I talked to about both cars said that ball joints don't tend to break at high speed; they usually fail at low speed when making a turn. That's what I experienced - I had just done a 2-hour highway drive followed by about 2 hours of driving on good gravel roads at around 70km/h, but it failed just as I slowed down and turned into a driveway. I don't know if that's by design, but it seems to be the way it goes.
Gizmotoy
Active Member
This has me pretty concerned. Mine is making a terrible, terrible noise when turning at or near full lock when going over uneven ground. It's getting worse every week. Metal scraping/cracking-type noises. I took it in and they couldn't reproduce, but said it wasn't a safety issue and got me an appointment for 2 months later. I still have several weeks to go.
I wonder if it's more serious than they realized.
My 2.5 month old 85D has had a creak over speed bumps since day 1. Service center said its normal. There is an air con bottle or something suspended and can sometimes hit the end of travel over speed bumps. I noticed the 90D loaner they gave me made the exact same sound so I hope that's all it is.
I haven't noticed any creaking when turning.
I haven't noticed any creaking when turning.
Peter_M
Member
To be a bit more specific about the symptoms of my problem, what I had was a squeaking sound, kind of like rubber on rubber, even when stopped and turning the wheel slightly from side to side at the centre position. The same sort of sound would happen sometimes when going over speed bumps or if I bounced the front end of the car up and down by hand. I wouldn't call what I heard scraping or cracking. Not to say that your issue isn't serious, but it doesn't sound like what I had.
If you don't feel that it's safe to drive your car and Tesla can't convince you otherwise (possibly with more details on what they think your problem is), they should tow it to a service centre and look at it pretty quickly. When I called initially, they offered me an appointment 3 weeks out (sending a loaner on a trailer) but when I asked about towing and said I didn't feel safe driving it, they towed it the same day and fixed it in 4 days. If it's not drivable (safely), the tow comes under roadside assistance, so you shouldn't have to pay.
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