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Tearing in Tesla's Model 3
- Thread starter seattlite2004
- Start date
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
What's the big deal...
Lots of cars don't have rear doors.
Lots of cars don't even have back seats.
Then there are cars that have faulty rear door handles.
Not to mention the fact that there are car accidents where the back doors are jammed by the collision anyway, so what's the point of mechanical door opening then?
Let's not forget all the disabled people who sits in back seats and can't even open a car door.
Lastly, if we count in the people that don't sit in cars at all, I really don't see the issue with this.
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Sunlight
Member
I saw a news clip of a what looked like a fairly minor urban accident in London (UK!) but the driver was trapped and may have had back injuries.
No opening of doors; breaking of windows; extracting driver in any way - just stabilize/calm the driver and remove the whole top half of the car and lift out driver vertically - took about 5 mins.
Surely if an accident is bad enough to warrant an 'extreme' response, then hacking a car to bits to get to someone is first option.
Fire is a concern as in South Africa we've had Ford Kuga SUVs catch fire in the engine bay and the doors apparently could not then be opened - sadly we had deaths in these cases. But that was with petrol cars....
No opening of doors; breaking of windows; extracting driver in any way - just stabilize/calm the driver and remove the whole top half of the car and lift out driver vertically - took about 5 mins.
Surely if an accident is bad enough to warrant an 'extreme' response, then hacking a car to bits to get to someone is first option.
Fire is a concern as in South Africa we've had Ford Kuga SUVs catch fire in the engine bay and the doors apparently could not then be opened - sadly we had deaths in these cases. But that was with petrol cars....
ChooseGreen
Member
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
My FJ Cruiser has suicide doors and no way to get out the back, due to a security cage for the cargo area. I've never really thought about it - just make sure you call "shotgun"...
You’re correct that it’s rare for a car crash to take out the 12 volt power. In my opinion, this gnashing of teeth about the rear doors is much ado about nothing, because a severe accident that takes out the 12 volt power will probably result in extraction techniques (Jaws of Life and/or Halligan tools).
I do agree that the reviewer was a bit hair on fire with some of his criticisms, but he pointed out some fit and alignment issues that is a problem Tesla has had from the beginning. Some cars off the line have perfect alignment, and others are pretty bad. There was someone in Canada last year who got a car with a giant hole in the A pillar (there was a thread here on TMC). How that slipped through QA and delivery check is a mystery.
Other cars do have alignment problems. Tesla isn't unique, but they are pretty low ranking compared to the competition though. It's one area where they are not strong. After I got my Model S I went over it and compared to my 1992 Buick Roadmaster that had had a couple of accidents, including getting T-boned and having the rear left quarter of the body replaced. The alignment and general quality of the trim on my 24 year old GM was was better than the Model S. And my Model S has decent alignment compared to most.
There were some other things that look unfinished like the edges of the windshield front and back. There is no trim piece around them like in most other cars, so you see the edge of the glass. They could have probably improved aerodynamics a tad by trimming those pieces too, you get turbulence and drag everywhere there is a sharp transition in the airflow.
I still think Tesla makes the best designed cars on the road, but I think they should listen to people like this guy. Not everything he says should be taken into consideration, but even if only 25% of what he has to say is valid, that's some areas where improvements could be made.
This guy serves his clients (ICE mfrs) in two ways:
1) publically, hyperbolically, unpersuasively, making critical comments about Tesla and how crappy they are trying to make a public case for how customers should not buy them.
2) for a substantial fee (apparently $500,000?) privately sharing reverse engineered details of information about Tesla designs and mfring practices that his clients apparently find very valuable and useful.
So which is it?
Tesla is crap, like Kia in the 90s, and ICE has nothing to worry about?
Or Tesla has magic secret design and mfring sauce for which this frim have decoded at least some of the recipe and are willing to sell this valuable information for the ICE mfrs for their own use?
I vote for #2 and his pathetic, laughable attempt at #1, is a just a weak side order of fries, thrown in to go with what ICE mfrs really want, the recipe for the Tesla Big Mac EV secret sauce.
1) publically, hyperbolically, unpersuasively, making critical comments about Tesla and how crappy they are trying to make a public case for how customers should not buy them.
2) for a substantial fee (apparently $500,000?) privately sharing reverse engineered details of information about Tesla designs and mfring practices that his clients apparently find very valuable and useful.
So which is it?
Tesla is crap, like Kia in the 90s, and ICE has nothing to worry about?
Or Tesla has magic secret design and mfring sauce for which this frim have decoded at least some of the recipe and are willing to sell this valuable information for the ICE mfrs for their own use?
I vote for #2 and his pathetic, laughable attempt at #1, is a just a weak side order of fries, thrown in to go with what ICE mfrs really want, the recipe for the Tesla Big Mac EV secret sauce.
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well...i def. agree with him on the window rubber, the gaps and the general "prototype" feel.
First gen Teslas always have a toddler feel to them. Better wait a year or two until they`re grown up.
First gen Teslas always have a toddler feel to them. Better wait a year or two until they`re grown up.
Hank42
Legacy Supporter
Clearly #2 if the doors don't open! I mean, they can spend time dicking around trying to figure out why the door won't open, or they can smash the glass.
thegruf
Active Member
I was too, like some others, concerned about the rear passengers not being able to open the doors in case of accident. Then a guy in the comment section brought up a really good point. He said he had a Civic coupe which has no rear doors at all. So are those passengers supposed to die all? I'm no longer concerned. As far as panel gaps go, when's the last time someone gets really close to the car to check for panel gaps? People check out cars from a couple feet away and that's it. No one really gets close, so it doesn't matter much to me.
Coupes are not as common today and the backseats in coupes are usually used less than they are in sedans or other vehicles with rear doors. If the backseats in a coupe are used, there is rarely anyone back there who would have trouble getting out of the car in an accident if they were uninjured because they needed some dexterity to get back there in the first place. In the backseat of a 4 door vehicle, you may have someone with a mobility handicap or a small child in a child seat.
I do think making a big point of there being no backseat manual door releases is a bit of a hair on fire sort of thing, but I do see the basic point.
I do think making a big point of there being no backseat manual door releases is a bit of a hair on fire sort of thing, but I do see the basic point.
N5329K
Active Member
Petra
Member
Alternately, how many owners do you suppose even know how to find/operate the manual release for the Model S and Model X rear doors?
I'm not a Tesla fanboy by any standard. Heck, I don't even believe what Elon says now after Tesla pushed back my reservation. But you just think about it. I don't care if he's right or wrong. But think about the motive of the tearing down the model 3? Why would the firm spend time and money to do that? to help the consumers make better decisions about buying cars? For the public's good? Lol.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
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The ad for Dow about 4:20 in is odd. They show an animation of a Model S, but then when they show the interior, it sure looks like they have an ICE under the hood.
As for the Model 3 tear down videos, I would caution against what Psychologists call "confirmation bias". This happens to just about every person in some area. Political views are rife with it. When someone has a strong emotional attachment to some idea, organization, concept, etc., people tend to react with emotion rather than thought when something comes along about that subject.
Back in 2004 Emory University did a study with people who identified as strong Democrats or strong Republicans. They were put in an MRI and given statements about each presidential candidate, some true, some not true and they watched how people's brains lit up. As a control they did the same thing with statements true and false about Tom Hanks.
They found when presented with statements about the candidates, the emotion centers of the brain lit up more than the cognitive centers, but the logic centers were more active when presented with the same sort of statements about Tom Hanks.
An abstract of the study:
Emory University News Release - PoliticalBrain
Tesla tends to be a very emotional subject for a lot of people, both pro and con. Bob Lutz is getting famous for his wildly bad predictions about Tesla's imminent demise. Personally I do think there is a lot of good about Tesla and I do feel my emotional defenses coming up when I hear someone trash Tesla.
However I have seen a few things here and there that aren't as good with Tesla compared to other cars. They can and do have more than their fair share of manufacturing errors compared to other car makers. There are some design choices that leave the car looking a little rough around the edges compared to other cars. Case in point is the lack of trim around the fixed windows. Most car makers have some sort of trim piece around the edge of the glass which smooths the transistion between the glass and the body of the car, but at least on the Model S, you see the edge of the glass right out there. I haven't seen a Model 3 up close yet, so I'm not sure how they designed it. But in any case, the first video from the tear down shows that Tesla is still having some issues with inconsistency in panel alignment.
The panel alignment is, at the end of the day, usually just a cosmetic thing, unless the alignment is very bad. However, it does put Tesla behind the curve compared to the expected standards today.
Another area where Tesla is poor is in timely delivery of spare parts and in at least some geographic areas their service support is spread too thin. Body shops often have to wait many months for replacement parts and sometimes it can take weeks to get into the service center for fairly basic fixes.
Now emotionally, there is a part of me that wants to deny that. It doesn't feel good to acknowledge Tesla is below average anywhere. However, I have to be honest with myself and they are below average in a few areas.
Personally I believe Tesla is above average in a lot of areas, and in most of the areas that count. But they aren't perfect.
I'm sure the Model 3 is going to be a massive hit and could change the car industry as much as the Model T did. But success is more likely if they listen to the critics when they speak up. Listening doesn't require agreement, but it does require processing the criticisms and improving in areas where there are valid criticisms. I did think he was "hair on fire" about some issues that aren't that big a deal, but I thought there were some valid criticisms too.
