Tesla Begrudgingly “Recalls” FSD Beta for NHTSA

WyoDude · Feb 16, 2023

TSLY said:
Musk has an uncontrollable propensity for exaggeration. FSD and Santa Clause have always been in same league, myths. FSD has struggled -- and failed -- to achieve L3 autonomous driving. It will never attain L4 or L5 autonomy -- or "FSD" as Musk has peddled it. First, the entire traffic infrastructure (roads, traffic, lights, etc), will need to be updated to deploy geofencing which in turn will enable vehicles to reliably communicate with each other -- and the road. So, don't be so gullible when Musk makes claims like Robotaxi will launch by the end 2020, etc, etc, etc.

View attachment 908105

kadify · Feb 16, 2023

What is the likelihood this could result in a class action? I'm truthfully at a point with my car where I'd rather just get back my 10k that I paid for feature than have the "promise" of FSD

Tbart66 · Feb 17, 2023

I’m sure there’s plenty of lobbying and other politics going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. It’s clear that Tesla’s competitors are getting worried about the progress being made with imminent rollout of v11.3 and HW4. It just means that Tesla is going to move that much closer to full autonomy. There are LOTS of forces against Tesla because people are seeing the tremendous progress of EVs, FSD, and where it’s going. Make no mistake about it, this is more about making headlines in the news about how “dangerous” Tesla’s are in order to discredit them. It’s not perfect, but those of us who have lived with FSD know better.

LiamPope · Feb 17, 2023

DanCar said:
Who makes sense, those that use the dictionary definition or those that don't?

What nonsense. Instead of using vehicle recall can simply use software recall. Is that so difficult to speak the truth?

Oh sure, make excuses for ineptness to change, using english inappropriately, spreading wrong information, and confusing people with a lie.

No, just another inept government bureaucracy is using wrong terminology.

NHTSA is very much lying. Stating something that isn't true. They can easily state something that is true.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Like I said, casual dictionary definitions often do not cover technical/scientific/industrial usage of certain terms. In a debate on such a technical subject, when someone brings out dictionary definitions as a slam-dunk gotcha, you know they got nothing!

See, for example, flat earthers thinking they are 'proving' the earth is flat by arguing around dictionary definitions of 'level' and 'horizontal', or young earth creationists and more flat earthers thinking they have dismissed entire fields of science they don't like by using the dictionary definition of 'theory' (just a guess!) to apply to scientific theories (very much not just guesses)!

I'm sorry it seems to make you confused and angry, but this event is what the automotive industry calls a 'recall'. It means there's a safety issue a manufacturer has to fix. It doesn't matter if, these days, they may be fixed remotely, they are still called a recall! But wait, all this ranting about lies, ineptness, wrong terminology... but you're perfectly happy if they called it a 'software recall'??

The hell difference would that make?!That's still a recall! Which is what this is - a recall. That doesn't protect poor Tesla from that scary word 'recall' that makes people gasp and generates headlines! There's really no need or benefit to start dividing recalls into various versions depending on if they apply to software or hardware or if they are remedied remotely or by physical presence. The industry is coping fine as it is.

Double down on the lies claim all you want, doesn't make it true. NHTSA and Tesla are just following industry practice and using industry terminology correctly. No lies or misinformation here.

mtbwalt · Feb 17, 2023

It seems to me that the NHTSA is setting pretty high standards for a level 2 driver assist function.

If near perfect decision making independent of the driver is the standard they are setting for level 2, it will be curious to see how other automakers will be able to enter this sector. Or maybe different enforcement standards will apply to different companies. These are political appointees running NHTSA after all.

In the end, such actions and scrutiny will only accelerate Tesla’s progress to higher levels and performance.

derotam · Feb 17, 2023

Tam said:
There's already a law to fine cell owners who cell and drive on the road. No recalls are needed.

There's no law to fine a driver for FSD while driving so recalls are needed until then.

Sure there are laws...improper lane use, speeding, not using your turn signal, "Failure to Pay Full Time and Attention"(that's a nice vague all encompassing one)...

2101Guy · Feb 17, 2023

kadify said:
What is the likelihood this could result in a class action? I'm truthfully at a point with my car where I'd rather just get back my 10k that I paid for feature than have the "promise" of FSD

Tesla Lawsuit | Class Action for Autopilot & Self-Driving | May 2023

Anyone with a Tesla that has Autopilot or Self-Driving technology may qualify for compensation from a Tesla lawsuit. Get legal help now.

www.sokolovelaw.com

Tesla is now facing a class action lawsuit over 'misleading' claims about self-driving

Tesla is now facing a class action lawsuit over "allegedly misleading the public" regarding its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving.

electrek.co

Huncowboy · Feb 17, 2023

Interesting. This same exact thing happened to me one very early morning without any traffic around. I just realized FSD was available a day prior and I figured I will let it drive down to work. It was like 4:30am. Zero traffic. Perfect to play with it while drinking coffee. I was coming up on the intersection where I join the turnpike. You need to make a left to cross over the opposing 3 lanes to reach the ramp. It was green and as we were closing it was switching to amber. The car was slowing and stopped. It annoyed me because this is like a 2 min light and I always try to beat it. But it was doing the safe thing. Thumbs up! I let it. So it stopped. Complete stop. Then the light turned red. Immediately after, it started to move again and it went through the red light. I did not intervene since there was nobody around. I know. I ran a red light. But at the same time I was laughing so hard. I totally forgot to hit the horn and I did not record it.

Canefan456 · Feb 17, 2023

Does this mean that I will get my radar back for normal highway FSD and TACC and no more vision only?

JulienW · Feb 17, 2023

Canefan456 said:
Does this mean that I will get my radar back for normal highway FSD and TACC and no more vision only?

No

LiamPope · Feb 17, 2023

Canefan456 said:
Does this mean that I will get my radar back for normal highway FSD and TACC and no more vision only?

I rate the chances of implementing this new HD radar meaning they switch the old one back on in existing vehicles as 0.000000001% (because nothing is certain).

Canefan456 · Feb 17, 2023

LiamPope said:
I rate the chances of implementing this new HD radar meaning they switch the old one back on in existing vehicles as 0.000000001% (because nothing is certain).

So Phantom Braking, which for me has been the #1 issue with FSD, will continue to be an issue. Slamming on the brakes when there is absolutely nothing in front of me except a shadow on the road never happened before the switch to vision only and is a significant safety issue if there are cars behind me.

doc5339 · Feb 17, 2023

filezz said:
Maybe 11.3 is the fix??

Maybe the fix is suspending FSD.

Midnightsun · Feb 17, 2023

PianoAl said:
I agree that the car is way too slow in changing speeds when hitting a new limit, and I'm okay with changing that.

On my way to work I go through a school zone which drops the speed from 50kph to 30. Car does not slow down while in FSD so I take over. Car does show the 30kph sign on the screen but it does nothing to slow the car down. This school zone has been there for at least 15 years by the way so mapping detail should be accurate regarding the speed. My drive to work is only 8km on rural streets however there are 3 areas where I need to take over all the time so yes she still needs quite a bit of polishing.

Krash · Feb 17, 2023

comanchepilot said:
I'm sure this will be a sticky on all of the vehicle forums shortly…

I unclickbaited the title in this but It did become a blog entry. I don’t think it warrants a “sticky” but I added a few related thread links.

If anyone comes across good related threads in other forums, simply put a link in this thread and report your linked post and I’ll move it to that second post.

PianoAl · Feb 17, 2023

Midnightsun said:
Car does not slow down while in FSD so I take over.

Well mine does slow, but it takes about a mile to do so, which is effectively the same as not slowing in your situation.

Matias · Feb 17, 2023

Tam said:
Why do people keep saying "recall"?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1572985952683065345

kabin · Feb 17, 2023

Tam said:
Why do people keep saying "recall"?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1572985952683065345

For good reason Elon likes to tout Tesla's OTA software updates related to reduced cost and efficiencies but curiously not this time. I suspect it's all just a red herring distraction.

Of course recalls are used to fix items a given manufacturer originally deemed safe and road worthy. These issues are certainly not safe and are in need of recall. It doesn't matter if a recall is a service visit, dealership visit, hardware change, or an OTA update.

Ideally Tesla and the AI team are more proactive so a these things don't fester into recalls. It has to be embarrassing for Elon and the team to see virtually the entire FSD fleet have so many issues come to light this way. The ball is always in their court.

CyberGus · Feb 17, 2023

YNoVA said:
FSD can't read "No Turn On Red" signs either.

FSD can read the signs, it just DGAF

CyberGus · Feb 17, 2023

Padelford said:
One of my biggest complaints about FSD beta is that it ignores school speed zones. That alone should trigger a NHTSA recall.

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Tesla Begrudgingly “Recalls” FSD Beta for NHTSA

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