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On the other side the Taycan has at 150 km/h a similar range as the Model 3 LR RWD.

View attachment 511425

There is still a large difference between EPA and reality.

Charging Speed of Taycan is also much better.

View attachment 511426

Here in there is a considerable drop of charging speed during winter, not only because of charge gate.

I can only shake my head when someone says that Tesla is years ahead of the others. Tesla has been a bit lazy the last few years. With NMC the others have the better battery technology with higher cycle numbers and better charging speed.

So I hope Tesla is now pushing the limits to go ahead again.

This is absolutely interesting info, and it is a data point, but it's also cherry picking the best case scenario for the Taycan.

This is useful for showing the advantages of the two-speed transmission, heat pump, and aero, but the numbers would be much different if it were good weather at normal speeds.

EPA numbers obviously aren't accurate for Teslas at low temps and illegal-in-US speeds, but the test you posted are also nowhere near accurate at normal speeds and decent weather.

Case in point, Motor Trend's test where they achieved 369 miles of range in the "370-mile" Model S with 11% battery still remaining.

Or my trip this weekend that resulted in 199 wh/mile despite the AC/seat heater/4-people/70 mph (3LR RWD), which also easily beats the EPA estimate.

All these tests give interesting results... for that particular use case.

Pretending like one test is indicative of all use cases by making broad over-generalizations is nonsense.


NMC of Audi/Porsche has a much better lifetime and fast charging ability than NCA. This is also the reason why Tesla uses NMC for energy storage and not NCA, which is dead after about 500 full cyles or 1200-1400 typical charge cycles, that EM mentioned in the investor call after indroduction of the power packs.

Charge- and Battery gates are the symptoms of the weakness of NCA.

Please read the following studies:
NCA
NMC

Theory is cool, but it's time to go back to the drawing board if it doesn't line up with what happens in the real world. There are plenty of distinctly not "dead" Teslas with 1200-1400 charge cycles.
 
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Another story on the Taycan fire/explosion
Porsche Taycan caught on fire — burning down a garage in Florida - Electrek

It is just one fire so far, but not good PR for a cat that was only introduced a few months ago. If there are more fires like this among the small fleet of Taycans that spells trouble for Porsche. If it's a one off it will probably be forgotten in a few months.
 
NMC of Audi/Porsche has a much better lifetime and fast charging ability than NCA. This is also the reason why Tesla uses NMC for energy storage and not NCA, which is dead after about 500 full cyles or 1200-1400 typical charge cycles, that EM mentioned in the investor call after indroduction of the power packs.

Charge- and Battery gates are the symptoms of the weakness of NCA.

Please read the following studies:
NCA
NMC

Also face-palmingly bad.

"NMC" and "NCA" are not a specific formulation; there's wide variations in the ratios, manufacturing techniques, electrolyte compositions, etc etc. Heck, saying "NMC" and "NCA" doesn't even describe the anode at all. It's like comparing one random house in Cleveland and one random house in Omaha, and saying that this means that all houses in each location are like the random ones you picked. And then on top of that, picking different houses from different decades.

I bought a brand new MX100D with starting usable capacity of 98.4 kWh according to Jason Hughes. After about 13.000 miles usable full pack is now 87.6kWh. This translates into a degradation of about 12 % in about 11 months.

1) There is no such thing as a "brand new" MX100D. 100D was discontinued a year ago for the MX LR.

2. That puts you way outside the normal curve, based on the reported degradation datasets. Outliers do of course exist.

3. If you never measured your starting capacity using the same methodology that you're measuring your current capacity, then you're simply assuming that you happened to have a pack model which happened to have the same initial capacity as Jason Hughes. Given how frequently Tesla updates pack chemistries, that's dubious.

Part is real chemical degradation, but part is also Tesla intentionally turning down the capacity, because of long-term risk of lithium plating.

If you're talking about the recent update, Bjørn Nyland confirmed with ScanMyTesla that they did not actually "turn down" any capacity; they effectively moved reported capacity from the top to the bottom, by changing the range-reporting scalar but not the voltage cutoff. Voltage cutoff changes (which were presumed to be due to lithium plating) only apply to specific old S/X packs.
 
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"Mercedes-Benz Thailand plans to begin local production of the first battery electric vehicle (BEV), the EQC, in 2021 after the car maker agreed with the Board of Investment (BoI) to import the first batch to be sold here this year.

The EQC SUV is scheduled to be showcased in March at the Bangkok International Motor Show, with booking open.

Mercedes-Benz earlier said the plan was to postpone EQC introduction from 2019 because the BoI had yet to approve its plan to import 500-600 cars to be sold in Thailand after the car maker won investment incentives for assembly at a factory in Samut Prakan."

Mercedes-Benz preps BEV for next year
 
Can someone explain to me how Subaru isn't going electric? The Outback platform is perfect for EVs and would be wildly popular with their base.

All I can see is a joint effort with Toyota to bring an EV to market by......2025. Lol!

Their stock has been in the crapper over the last 5 years with a market cap just north of $20B, despite being wildly popular in parts of the US.

I guess their margins aren't great and they don't have the means to transition. A shame since they're a fairly decent company and brand.
 
Can someone explain to me how Subaru isn't going electric? The Outback platform is perfect for EVs and would be wildly popular with their base.

All I can see is a joint effort with Toyota to bring an EV to market by......2025. Lol!

Their stock has been in the crapper over the last 5 years with a market cap just north of $20B, despite being wildly popular in parts of the US.

I guess their margins aren't great and they don't have the means to transition. A shame since they're a fairly decent company and brand.
Japanese are BEV laggards. Nissan was the exception as it was led by an outsider. Until they put him in jail.

Part of the problem is government support for fuel cells instead of BEVs. Part is the Fukushima Daiichi aftermath, which drove electricity shortages. They also have a strong historical focus on economical vehicles and they see cars like the Camry Hybrid as more economical.

Toyota is seen as the only European carmaker able to meet the EU's "no loophole" 2021 95 g/km CO2 limit. They are doing this without BEVs, even though BEVs get a huge advantage of counting as "zero CO2". It's pretty compelling support for the claim that hybrids are the fastest way to actually reduce CO2.
 
It's pretty compelling support for the claim that hybrids are the fastest way to actually reduce CO2.
Hybrid doesn't make sense, an hybrid is a full electric car with limited range, but instead of putting a bigger battery,
why not include a gas engine for which you can make a lot of profit and keep customer coming for maintenance.

Basically saying why "to kill the goose that lays the golden egg ?"
 
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Can someone explain to me how Subaru isn't going electric? The Outback platform is perfect for EVs and would be wildly popular with their base.

All I can see is a joint effort with Toyota to bring an EV to market by......2025. Lol!

Their stock has been in the crapper over the last 5 years with a market cap just north of $20B, despite being wildly popular in parts of the US.

I guess their margins aren't great and they don't have the means to transition. A shame since they're a fairly decent company and brand.

Subaru is converting their entire line up to one platform that is stretched or otherwise tweaked for the different cars. It's the latest trend in car manufacturing. I'm not sure the Outback is on that platform yet. I know the Impreza/Crosstrek were the first to use it.

Converting an ICE platform to BEV is not an optimum layout because where things go is different in the two vehicles. It's much more efficient to design an EV from the ground up as an EV.

Also one of the last places where ICE make more sense than EVs is in the serious off roading community. For people who want to go deep into the wilderness and camp, a car that can get there and back and can get a range extension from some fuel cans strapped to the roof rack, is an advantage over an EV that is tied to terrestrial power sources.

The majority of people who have off road capable cars and trucks never take them off road and they could convert to an EV and probably never be very inconvenienced by it. But for the hard core offroad types who do go off into the wilderness for a week or more at a time, an ICE still makes sense.

Subaru is only partially owned by Toyota, but as @Doggydogworld said, all the Japanese brands except Nissan are behind with EVs and Nissan has only made one. I believe the US is Subaru's biggest market by a larger margin than most other foreign brands, so they are much more sensitive to trends in American car tastes. EVs are becoming a thing in the US and Subaru will have their first EV soon. How fast they electrify their fleet will depend on how fast customer demand in the US changes.

Toyota may have met the 2021 EU standard, but tougher standards are coming and Toyota is probably going to find it difficult to meet them with hybrids. But Toyota is also probably the most conservative car company in the world. They tend to stick with platforms longer than other brands and change tech more slowly. This is a way they keep their quality scores up. Older car designs with all the bugs worked out are more reliable than new designs with teething problems.
 
EVs are becoming a thing in the US and Subaru will have their first EV soon. How fast they electrify their fleet will depend on how fast customer demand in the US changes

The problem isn't demand, Tesla has proven that. The rate of electrification entirely depends on a compelling product, a bar which Subaru are unlikely to jump over with their current plans. Even "skateboard" platforms like my Smart ED, Bolt and other EV's haven't taken off, because they are not compelling for price, whereas Tesla has solved that formula and is expanding production in the US to accommodate demand.
 
They like to make money on vehicles. The Nissan Leaf has likely never made money and how much has it cost?
If Battery/Pack cost can keep coming down then EVs will hopefully compete equally.

There are some stories out there of the Leaf being profitable as early as 2014, but it has not been a big seller for Nissan. They never tried to mass produce it because they never had access to the quantity of inexpensive batteries Tesla has and demand was never there for much more than they were selling.

The problem isn't demand, Tesla has proven that. The rate of electrification entirely depends on a compelling product, a bar which Subaru are unlikely to jump over with their current plans. Even "skateboard" platforms like my Smart ED, Bolt and other EV's haven't taken off, because they are not compelling for price, whereas Tesla has solved that formula and is expanding production in the US to accommodate demand.

There are different types of car buyers. The biggest segment of the car market are the middle class family car buyers. They have moved to SUVs and 4 door trucks in recent years, but it's the same socio-economic group that were buying large sedans and station wagons in the early 70s.

Most of the EVs introduced before 2019 were aimed at the eco buyer, which is a limited market. These are buyers who are most concerned about environmental concerns when buying a car. It drove the early hybrid market and Smart has always targeted that market niche too. Most were ugly, most were very compromised cars you couldn't take on a road trip, or even to the home center store.

Tesla was the only car maker who was aiming at the family car market. The Model S and X were way too expensive to compete with the most popular cars/SUVs in the market, but they showed that an EV can be a compelling family car. And the Model 3 has become one of the top selling sedans in the US, beating out a lot of ICE. The Model Y will probably take a chunk of the SUV market and finally put Tesla squarely in the middle of the mass market.

I knew Tesla was onto something when in 2015 I had to take a taxi and the taxi driver used to own an auto body shop. He was ranting about how much he hated EVs. I mentioned the Tesla Model S was nice and he spent the rest of the ride going on about how he was going to buy a Model S someday.

Tesla makes cars people who hate EVs like. We'll see if the new EVs from European makers catch on like Tesla did, but the small eco EVs available before 2019 had limited appeal to a niche of the market and not much else.
 
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Can someone explain to me how Subaru isn't going electric? The Outback platform is perfect for EVs and would be wildly popular with their base.

All I can see is a joint effort with Toyota to bring an EV to market by......2025. Lol!

Their stock has been in the crapper over the last 5 years with a market cap just north of $20B, despite being wildly popular in parts of the US.

I guess their margins aren't great and they don't have the means to transition. A shame since they're a fairly decent company and brand.
They simply don't have the money to start from scratch.
 
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The problem isn't demand, Tesla has proven that. The rate of electrification entirely depends on a compelling product, a bar which Subaru are unlikely to jump over with their current plans. Even "skateboard" platforms like my Smart ED, Bolt and other EV's haven't taken off, because they are not compelling for price, whereas Tesla has solved that formula and is expanding production in the US to accommodate demand.

I think the key is that everyone else is making electric cars, while Tesla is making an ecosystem. Yes, there's the car itself, but there's also the software, Autopilot(I keep that as separate), Superchargers, regular OTA updates, etc. With everyone else, it's: "Welp, here's the car. Enjoy you're 1990's-era software interface and paying for crappy, outdated maps and good luck out there."
 
it's: "Welp, here's the car. Enjoy you're 1990's-era software interface and paying for crappy, outdated maps and good luck out there."

Oh! So you’ve driven in a Smart Electric then! :). Sadly very true. I laugh at the crappy tech in my Smart even if I love the fun to drive factor and great maneuverability.
When I get in our Tesla I’m stunned by how well the entire system works including instant Bluetooth and things that we didn’t have when the car was new. Love OTA
 
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