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Tesla Says Model 3 Will Be On Sale 2017 Alongside Chevy Bolt

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Then why are they showing both sedan and CUV variants at launch in March? The "split personality" 3 will show they are on the same platform. Why show both and only take orders for one?

They'll reveal Model ≡ in 2016, start building in quantity late 2017, spam them out full blast in 2018.

Then maybe in 2018 or 2019 they'll announce Model Y and start selling it in 2019 or 2020.

They'll focus on one at a time for the next 5 years at least.

If you believe otherwise you'll be disappointed the day of the Model ≡ reveal.
 
They'll reveal Model ≡ in 2016, start building in quantity late 2017, spam them out full blast in 2018.

Then maybe in 2018 or 2019 they'll announce Model Y and start selling it in 2019 or 2020.

They'll focus on one at a time for the next 5 years at least.

If you believe otherwise you'll be disappointed the day of the Model ≡ reveal.
I think this is pessimistic. If we don't hear anything about the Model Y in March, I would expect Tesla to be planning a reveal in 2017 and then production in 2018.

Around 2012, I recall Elon Musk saying that the the plan was to reveal a new model each year, with production startup of each model the subsequent year. This plan obviously didn't pan out, but it does go to show the ambitions of Tesla.

I think the bigger question is if the Model Y would be delayed if Tesla finds itself with more than sufficient demand for the Model 3. I think this could easily be the case.
 
Not to be a terd in the punchbowl, but what is Tesla's history for achieving initial report delivery dates?

While it is entirely possible that a Model 3 will be available in 2017, are there spy shots of a camo car doing testing yet? Early June 2015 is when the first camo Bolt was spotted on the road.

Tesla should take orders for the Model 3 in March to assist funding the development, and cut into Bolt sales. But I don't see a 2017 model actually happening, unless they cut short CTF testing (captured test fleet, camo cars, test mules), which is usually more than 1 year to insure quality. They need to test the car in various driving conditions, all seasons, different drivers, and log a bunch of miles to catch problems.
 
Hard to say. There's still a fair amount of final validation that can only take place in a near-production prototype, but a lot of testing can take place in simulated, indoor environments. I'd imagine a lot of R&D is taking place out of the public eye. I think the reason it seems the Bolt just popped up out of nowhere is that planning and development was taking place on it probably soon after the launch of the first-generation Volt, with development really taking off on it starting in late '13/early '14.

The reason the timeline on the Model 3 seems so protracted and drawn out is that Musk has been talking about it forever, but more from a long-term strategic standpoint, rather than an imminent introduction.
 
Some auto releases are WAY long in the tooth before you see a press car. The NSX comes to mind. The Blue Devil project by GM had a test mule accidently spotted in California over 2 years before production, when you consider all of them are built in Kentucky, it was strange to see it on the other coast. It was loaded with instruments where the passenger seat sits normally. When they actually started on it is anybodies guess. We named ours Satan in honor of the Blue Devil since we have a red one.
 
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Early June 2015 is when the first camo Bolt was spotted on the road.

And that car was officially announced when again ? Ah yeah ! In January 2015.
And the fact that it isn't on the road yet does not mean they don't have alpha prototypes in testing right now ! Don't forget it's an electric car: it can be run in the buildings where no one can spy shot it.
 
full AP coming this year...
"Full AP"? If by that you mean that Tesla is going to have autonomous driving this year, that is incorrect. Elon has said his goal is 2 to 3 years for autonomous driving being available from Tesla, and that may be optimistic. He has also said that it may be available before government laws allow it to be used.
 
I think they are enough people to buy 300.000 Bolts and 500.000 Model 3 every year.
Perhaps. The problem is convincing General Motors of that fact. They have no current intention of selling any fully electric vehicle at that volume.

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And that's exactly the misconception a lot of people have who have never considered buying a BMW 3-Series or didn't look closer at the options at the dealership. That stuff has options that you would never think is has, if you want the options every $25000 Japanese car has you will spend several thousand Dollars on top of already higher base price.
Yes. I have often pointed out that a base BMW 3-Series is not really appointed better than a base Toyota Camry LE. People are confused because, well, none of the 'independent franchised dealerships' actually offer a base 320i. Instead, they sell an optioned up version of the same car in the $42,000-$45,000 range.

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We've seen all the expensive cars that Tesla have built. Hope they can distill that Tesla magic on a car that costs 35% less on average.
They'll be able to manage the feat easily. The most expensive component of a Model S or Model X is the battery pack. The Gigafactory is essential to bring its price down considerably for use in Generation III vehicles. The electric motors cost next to nothing, and certainly less than those ICE found in competition such as 3-Series, A4, ATS, IS, XE, etc. That's because there's hardly more to it than a spindle, copper wire, ceramic bearings, and a casing.

A BMW 3-Series 'roller' without engine or drivetrain, costs around $22,000 or so. If Tesla Motors is able to build everything for the base Model ≡ for $22,000 and then spends $10,000 for the battery pack, that $32,000 out of pocket. A $35,000 sale price would make for a 9.375% profit. The industry standard is 6%, and Lexus claims 14%. Don't be surprised if Tesla manages a 15% margin on the base Model ≡, and a 25% margin on higher trim levels.

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The probability is very high that Model 3 will not be a front-wheel drive econobox with a torsion beam rear suspension.

It's not 100% certain either that the next generation BMW 3-Series or Mercedes C-Class will be vastly superior to a Honda Fit. Anyone want to bet on this?
+42! Well played.
 
They'll be able to manage the feat easily. The most expensive component of a Model S or Model X is the battery pack. The Gigafactory is essential to bring its price down considerably for use in Generation III vehicles. The electric motors cost next to nothing, and certainly less than those ICE found in competition such as 3-Series, A4, ATS, IS, XE, etc. That's because there's hardly more to it than a spindle, copper wire, ceramic bearings, and a casing.

A BMW 3-Series 'roller' without engine or drivetrain, costs around $22,000 or so. If Tesla Motors is able to build everything for the base Model ≡ for $22,000 and then spends $10,000 for the battery pack, that $32,000 out of pocket. A $35,000 sale price would make for a 9.375% profit. The industry standard is 6%, and Lexus claims 14%. Don't be surprised if Tesla manages a 15% margin on the base Model ≡, and a 25% margin on higher trim levels.

Tesla has one significant disadvantage; they have to build all new tooling & equipment for an entirely new production line. And so they're going to be eating the depreciation on all of that tooling for the first few years. Even when they do a model changeover, BMW uses a lot of existing, fully depreciated equipment for the new line.

After a couple of years of production, I fully agree. A model ≡ should ultimately be cheaper to produce than a 3 series.
 
Tesla has one significant disadvantage; they have to build all new tooling & equipment for an entirely new production line. And so they're going to be eating the depreciation on all of that tooling for the first few years.

Precisely why Tesla will most likely continue their usual way of building Founders, Signature Series and high-specced cars first before any of the general production cars roll off the line, despite the fact that it's supposed to be a mass-market car and the general desire for having a mass market price right from the start. Gigafactory full scale production and volume price reductions on the batteries won't happen for at east 2 years which is most likely why Elon has said they don't expect a profit for about 5 years.

Remember: Tesla is small player in a very big game and they don't get the volume pricing discounts that the GMs and Fords of this world get so for the foreseeable future they pretty much have to keep ASPs quite high for Model 3.
 
The Model 3 has to ship on time, very, very close to it. The scale of the investments to bring the Model 3 to market won't allow a lot of slack. There's about $1.5 billion spent on the Gigafactory at that point, plus the Fremont factory upgrades.
Exactly. The fate of the Model ≡ is inextricably tied to the Gigafactory, and vice-versa. A late release of Generation III vehicles would be catastrophic failure. One that might see the end of Tesla Motors if not executed properly. The funds that have been borrowed to construct the Gigafactory to begin with would come due, and there would be no sufficient revenue stream to pay it back. There is no way in [HECK] that Elon Musk will allow that to happen. It would mean selling off the company or giving up control to someone else.

They can't expect to ship Model S + X at the 200,000 vehicle rate. The S demand managed to cover the delay in the X. It is unlikely the S+X can cover for the doubling of the factory + Gigafactory phase 1. Musk himself has said so in interviews last year.
I do expect the Model X to end up being ridiculously popular. Far more so than most realize. The flagship SUV for Premium car sales manufacturers typically outsells the top-of-the-line Sedan for the marque in the US (if not elsewhere). Once 'The WAIT' for a Model X is brought down to the 1-to-2 months range, and Production is at full steam, don't be surprised if the Model X sells at least 2:1 and eventually 3:1 versus the Model S in the US, and 1:1 in other territories. So, their combined annual sales may reach the 140,000-to-150,000 range during 2017 or 2018. Though, you are correct, that won't be enough to cover the Gigafactory. The Model ≡ must be on time.
 
I do expect the Model X to end up being ridiculously popular. Far more so than most realize. The flagship SUV for Premium car sales manufacturers typically outsells the top-of-the-line Sedan for the marque in the US (if not elsewhere). Once 'The WAIT' for a Model X is brought down to the 1-to-2 months range, and Production is at full steam, don't be surprised if the Model X sells at least 2:1 and eventually 3:1 versus the Model S in the US, and 1:1 in other territories. So, their combined annual sales may reach the 140,000-to-150,000 range during 2017 or 2018. Though, you are correct, that won't be enough to cover the Gigafactory. The Model ≡ must be on time.

With the USD being so strong now Tesla vehicles are costing a lot more than in the last 2 years. Canadian pricing is up 27% over 2 years ago and pushing higher every day it seems. Rumour has it Tesla is waiting for Feb 8 to release Model X pricing in Canada along with another 8% price increase across the board. We're expecting Model 3 to be $45K CAD base price before options! Anyhow, south of the border the Model X will be very popular but up here the price is just astronomical for an SUV.

The Model ≡ must be on time

Pretty good indication if it's actually going to be on time is if they announce a factory production line expansion by the end of the year. The last time was in November 2014 to prep for Model X and Model S increased production. Elon has made it very clear they're very very aware of their not so great history with timeframes and wanting to keep Model 3 on time so we'll see next month how that vision comes to life in terms of what they did to get the costs down and keep their expected production dates. Personally I have a feeling they either started engineering Model 3 much sooner than announced or they are really going for a simple Model S shrink, at least initially.
 
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Anyhow, south of the border the Model X will be very popular but up here the price is just astronomical for an SUV.
Somehow, I doubt Canadians will decide to 'settle' for a base configuration of Porsche Cayenne instead. Though the fully loaded Model X P90D may well have an 'astronomical' price, it is still several thousand dollars less than a Cayenne Turbo S -- $157,300 to start, USD -- which goes even higher with more options. I do find it strange that those in media keep quoting the highest price point for Tesla Motors vehicles, but the lowest price points for their competitors.
 
Somehow, I doubt Canadians will decide to 'settle' for a base configuration of Porsche Cayenne instead. Though the fully loaded Model X P90D may well have an 'astronomical' price, it is still several thousand dollars less than a Cayenne Turbo S -- $157,300 to start, USD -- which goes even higher with more options. I do find it strange that those in media keep quoting the highest price point for Tesla Motors vehicles, but the lowest price points for their competitors.
But they might trade their base Model X (currently predicted to be above $90,000 CAD) for a base Cayenne (at $67,400 CAD) and have over $20,000 left over to upgrade it...
 
green1: Yeah, but then they'd have to drive a Cayenne.

;-)
Not saying it would be my personal choice... but I can say that many people stretch to but a Tesla, and with the current RWD 70 Model S starting price over $90,000 and a promised price increase soon, it's harder and harder for people to make that stretch. I don't blame Tesla on this one, Canada is still under priced compared to the USA based on current exchange rates, but it's still pretty painful. Everything we buy has recently increased in price by a huge margin, but our pay cheques sure haven't.
 
Historically the exchange rate has been 20-25% with a few short years recently at par or slightly above. My wife I are going to Florida this week and we bought USD at .39 and that's at a bank employee rate! Never mind the price of oil being less than a bucket of KFC, Teslas prices being adjusted no less than 4-5 times in the last year is not good for business up here. They will surely see sales fall dramatically very soon.
We want to buy a Model 3 but if prices keep increasing between now and April 2018 when our lease is up, it's going to hard to justify.
What I can't understand is the Lincoln Mkc I bought a year ago that's made in Tennessee still costs exactly the same today as it did a year ago.