Tesla Semi

[neroden]

Any speculation if the Tesla Semi is specifically an American market product?

Perhaps the most interesting thing we learned about the Semi is the center driving position, as well as the two different *heights* (which seem like a very minor option variation, probably alterable after purchase). It seems clear that they are planning to sell essentially a *single model* for all markets (no RHD/LHD distinction).

Other points: between the trailer and the tractor are automatically activated flaps, which open up when making tight turns to allow the trailer to rotate.

Megacharger (darn, I was rooting for Hypercharger).

Oh, and they're definitely putting up their own solar + Powerpacks at the Megachargers. The 7 cent price works out right: 5 cents for Powerpack, 2 cents for solar/wind & misc. i don't think land acquisition or property tax is accounted for but I'm presuming these will be dropped in pretty rural areas to start with.

 

[tlo]

I'm a bit confused over the smaller black truck. No details on the website. Does anyone know what's the deal?

 

[MP3Mike]

I'm a bit confused over the smaller black truck. No details on the website. Does anyone know what's the deal?

I assume it is basically the same truck just without the Aero topper. Though I think it had actual mirrors, instead of camera "ears".

 

[neroden]

I assume it is basically the same truck just without the Aero topper. Though I think it had actual mirrors, instead of camera "ears".

Shorter Aero topper (for shorter trailers) and actual mirrors (which are likely to be required legally in many places for a long time). I like that the mirrors look like they really don't change the truck design much... and they're very aerodynamic.

 

[RobStark]

Meanwhile back in Suttgart

Daimler unveils heavy-duty all-electric truck concept with ‘up to 220 miles’ range

 

[RABaby]

First announced orders for the semi - four to Meijer Inc.

Tesla Seals Order From Michigan Grocery Chain for Semi Trucks

 

[adiggs]

Well I am certainly glad to admit being wrong.

4 motors, 500 miles range, and it comes with a roadster.

Mind = blown

Jk about the roadster btw. My mind is still blown. Elon certainly gave us a show tonight. I kind of want to be a trucker now.

He does move goal posts awfully well

 

[LosAltosChuck]

Color me cynical on the Semi. In some ways, they took ideas from WAVE (

). No problem with that, but they didn’t invent driver center seating. (But they did invent a Class 8 frunk, I’m sure drivers everywhere were waiting for that!)

One thing I have to call foul on: Elon claimed that due to the four motors in the tractor, and those motors’ ability to implement stability control, the Tesla Semi has eliminated the possibility of jackknifing. This is just not true. Trailers will jackknife regardless of what the tractor does if they don’t have a functioning ABS system on the trailer axles, if subjected to forces and friction issues that promote jackknifing. Nothing only on the tractor will stop it. (I have direct experience with this on test tracks.)

Here’s my theory: Elon is going to use the Tesla Semi to justify the formation of a new company called Tesla Trucks. He’s going to transfer all the debt carried by Tesla Motors onto this new entity, then Tesla Semi will declare bankruptcy. This will clear the path financially for the new Roadster.

 

[EinSV]

1MWh battery for 500miles at 2kWh/mile (80k lbs at 60 mph). To charge 800kWh in 30 minute will require at least 1.6 MW charging rate. (Not sure how they can deliver on 7c/kWh.)

Part of the answer is solar is getting ridiculously cheap and prices are still dropping fast (obviously costs are higher with storage but I heard there is a company working on that).

The other part of the answer is that Tesla doesn't have to make much $ on charging per se as long as it makes money on the whole package, since they control the ecosystem. The battery plus charging replaces diesel. Since nobody else has a charging network, Tesla had a choice to make more $ on the upfront cost or downstream charging. It is choosing to build more of the customer's cost into the battery/vehicle than charging, which is similar to what they have done in the car business.

This will tend to attract customers putting the most miles on the trucks because they will see the biggest savings from extremely low recharging costs -- a fraction of the cost of diesel per mile. That promotes Tesla's mission of accelerating sustainable transport because the most intensive portions of the trucking world will have a more powerful incentive to shift to EVs, given the ridiculously low fueling charges.

This structure has other advantages but it is getting late ....

 

[Daniellane]

Snapped some pictures of Roadster & designer up close.
(Yes - I did touch the Next Gen Roadster)
Quick slideshow on YouTube

Franz von Holzhausen

 

[schonelucht]

Why was there no discussion at all about FSD capabilities on the Semi?

 

[mongo]

One thing I have to call foul on: Elon claimed that due to the four motors in the tractor, and those motors’ ability to implement stability control, the Tesla Semi has eliminated the possibility of jackknifing. This is just not true. Trailers will jackknife regardless of what the tractor does if they don’t have a functioning ABS system on the trailer axles, if subjected to forces and friction issues that promote jackknifing. Nothing only on the tractor will stop it. (I have direct experience with this on test tracks.)

Non-truck driver here, so please correct me where I err. Are there two types of jack knifing , the first being the tractor stays straight and the trailer swings around (trailer at 90 degrees to direction of travel (DoT)), and the second being the tractor gets turned and the trailer pushes it the rest of the way (tractor at 90 degrees to DoT)?
If so, and assuming the 4 rear motors each drive a set of wheels, couldn't the vectored torque steering go a long way to prevent the second form?
Further, with computer stability control, couldn't the additional control also reduce the first type of jack knife by providing more opportunity to keep the king pin in front of the trailer center of mass?

Additionally, with regenerative braking, tractor torque vectoring, and two sensors on the kingpin for angle and force, the tractor could help prevent lock up of the trailer brakes, and anticipate an out of alignment issue. (Also detect stuck trailer brakes/ flat via drag profile.)

Realizing of course, the real world situation may not provide room to prevent knifing in all situations (emergency braking while on a curve).

I may be reaching a bit, but with the new levels of control, I do think they can apply some of the knowledge they have developed via Tesla stability control and SpaceX landings. (Oh, maybe the aerodynamic wings can also be air brakes?)

 

[jhm]

Because it is going to be from solar, they aren't planning on buying electricity.

Yeah, solar is a start, but it will be hard to match supply with demand. A megacharger that serves up to 20 trucks at once will have variable demand from 0 to 32 MW throughout the day and night. Suppose they need to deliver say 160 MWh on an average day. 40MW solar would come close to supplying average daily demand. But most of this power would need to be stored in stationary batteries (or swapped with the utility). So I think we are talking about a grid battery with 32 MW and 128 MWh. This is where things get expensive. Of course a megacharger outfitted with 32MW solar and 128MWh storage would also be able to provide substantial services to the grid. And this may well be where the economics sweeten, but it will be very important that the local utility is willing to play nice with Tesla.

If Tesla were offering power on demand at 12 c/kWh, then the economics of the stored solar like the Kauai plant would make sense. But 7c/kWh would be hard for most utilities to pull off given the peak demand extremes. Perhaps this 7c/kWh promise is only good for available supplies. That is the 20 truck megacharger has a maximum of whatever the solar is producing plus a trickle from the utility. Thus to get the cheap rate you'd have to be willing to charge at a slower rate when demand exceeds supply. This would imply a demand response mechanism for balancing a limited supply. I would envision a price plan where you pay a premium price for max charging rate or an economy price for whatever supply is left over.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I'm a bit confused over the smaller black truck. No details on the website. Does anyone know what's the deal?

The smaller black truck has the impressive 500 mile range that Elon was talking about.
The large truck is the 300 mile truck from the "300 or 500 miles" range on the semi page.

</cynicism>

 

[spottyq]

Shorter Aero topper (for shorter trailers) and actual mirrors (which are likely to be required legally in many places for a long time). I like that the mirrors look like they really don't change the truck design much... and they're very aerodynamic.

I assume the black truck was the "300-mile range" one versus the "500-mile range" of the big one. (Or maybe the other way around, for aero reasons ?)
Tesla's website says 300 *or* 500 mile range.

 

[jhm]

Does anyone know what total cost per mile for diesel Elon was using?

 

[mongo]

Yeah, solar is a start, but it will be hard to match supply with demand. A megacharger that serves up to 20 trucks at once will have variable demand from 0 to 32 MW throughout the day and night. Suppose they need to deliver say 160 MWh on an average day. 40MW solar would come close to supplying average daily demand. But most of this power would need to be stored in stationary batteries (or swapped with the utility). So I think we are talking about a grid battery with 32 MW and 128 MWh. This is where things get expensive. Of course a megacharger outfitted with 32MW solar and 128MWh storage would also be able to provide substantial services to the grid. And this may well be where the economics sweeten, but it will be very important that the local utility is willing to play nice with Tesla.

If Tesla were offering power on demand at 12 c/kWh, then the economics of the stored solar like the Kauai plant would make sense. But 7c/kWh would be hard for most utilities to pull off given the peak demand extremes. Perhaps this 7c/kWh promise is only good for available supplies. That is the 20 truck megacharger has a maximum of whatever the solar is producing plus a trickle from the utility. Thus to get the cheap rate you'd have to be willing to charge at a slower rate when demand exceeds supply. This would imply a demand response mechanism for balancing a limited supply. I would envision a price plan where you pay a premium price for max charging rate or an economy price for whatever supply is left over.

As mentioned in the presentation, the tractor-trailer can do a 200 mile there and back on one charge. So the megacharger can be at the central warehouse, where there is a lot of roof/ parking area, which can be covered by solar panels, which can be supplied by Tesla to charge power packs, supplied by Tesla. Tesla sells the excess power to the grid. Bonus: the warehouse could have a fuel free electrical backup.

160 MWh a day, I'll be generous at 8 hours = 20MW solar ~20% eff @ 1kW/m^2 = 100,000m^2 = ~1 million sq ft. That's the size of the Amazon warehouse in Baltimore.
With a 1 MWh pack each, that will fully charge 160 tractors, for a total of 80,000 miles. If it can haul 50k lbs net, that is 4,000 tons of cargo per day.
160 tractors at a 24/7 operation is one departing every 9 minutes.

 

[David29]

Anyone have a link to a complete video from Tesla? Not the fan videos but Tesla's? the web connection simply did not work so i quit and went to bed (east coats, it was late).
Can't find one on the Tesla web site or on YouTube except lots of fan videos with wiggly handheld cellphone videos. (No offense, glad they were there, but...)

 

[Daniellane]

Anyone have a link to a complete video from Tesla? Not the fan videos but Tesla's? the web connection simply did not work so i quit and went to bed (east coats, it was late).
Can't find one on the Tesla web site or on YouTube except lots of fan videos with wiggly handheld cellphone videos. (No offense, glad they were there, but...)

 

[Boourns]

Here's an idea: Draft Mode. Imagine taking a road trip (with AP2 doing the driving). You see a Tesla semi up ahread. Click a button and AP2 pulls your S/X/3 in close behind the semi. Now your 300 mile range becomes 400 (or some higher number) with efficiency gains. Plus it's perfectly safe since the semi and your car can communicate.