Tesla YANKED FSD option without notice - Class Action lawsuit? Any Lawyers here? [Resolved]

[Az_Rael]

This is what makes me concerned to see the ESP (Freudian slip! I could do with some ESP and so could my MS!) EAP / FSD situation clarified, especially in light of this thread. Personally I agree completely with your post, but reasonable, common sense and decent thing are not to be assumed dealing with Tesla. Which is a shame as they often do the right thing but it gets lost in this noise.

If you are concerned, a friendly email to [email protected] supposedly is an effective way to get clarification. I have not tried it, but others on this forum report they are responsive.

 

[Battpower]

If you are concerned, a friendly email to [email protected] supposedly is an effective way to get clarification. I have not tried it, but others on this forum report they are responsive.

Yes, I noticed that too and thought it worthwhile. Better to have clear while I'm just getting information.

 

[MS-Alec]

I don't know. Yes, could be exactly as you say and clearly was for your car but you have M3. What you actually got delivered against these terms, and for many 'have yet to have delivered' is so unclear.

Here is a snapshot from Wayback 2016!
Order your Tesla Model S | Tesla

You folks are making wrong assumptions about that 2017 window sticker not including FSD.


I DID buy EAP and FSD in 2017 and here is what my window sticker says. Full Self Driving Capability = FSD in 2017.

Edit: and I can confirm that Tesla does have my car configured correctly in their system, because I am scheduled to get my HW3 upgrade in a few weeks included as part of my prior FSD purchase.

View attachment 507063

here is what Tesla advertised back in 2017 - 2018 - Order a Model S

Looks like they change it to $3K + $5K in the beginning of 2019
https://web.archive.org/web/20190404144337/https://www.tesla.com/models/design#autopilot
to current offering just $6K straight - https://web.archive.org/web/20190531183435/https://www.tesla.com/models/design#autopilot

 

[MP3Mike]

he problem is that they removed it after OP purchased the vehicle and (I assume) was using the features beforehand.

Actually he said the features were removed before he took ownership of the car.

 

[PACEMD]

Here is a snapshot from Wayback 2016!

2016? Dang, that thing came over on the Mayflower, didn't it? Did they even have electricity back in those days? Next, you'll be telling us about one of them prehistoric 2014 thingys.........

 

[ucmndd]

No evidence that the car ever had fsd. EAP, yes. FSD-like feature set, yes. Hardware that could deliver what at that time was regarded as needing FSDC hardware, yes.

But at no time has present FSD been removed from this car.

If this car had been upgraded to FSD, then arguably it would be one of the cars that Tesla may be obliged to upgrade to HW3 with ap 2.5 cameras and rewiring and whatever else it takes to deliver the FSD paid for.

How are you missing the $3,000 FSD option on the window sticker? This is how these cars were sold new. $5000 for EAP, $3,000 for FSD. They were separate options with different feature sets.

 

[MS-Alec]

2016? Dang, that thing came over on the Mayflower, didn't it? Did they even have electricity back in those days? Next, you'll be telling us about one of them prehistoric 2014 thingys.........

I'm sorry if I have offended you, but my point was to show all face-lifted cars (mid2016+) were offered with two AP options and Tesla changed terms in 2019.

 

[ucmndd]

I'm sorry if I have offended you, but my point was to show all face-lifted cars (mid2016+) were offered with two AP options and Tesla changed terms in 2019.

Now we’re seriously splitting hairs, but not ALL facelift cars. Many were produced between April and October with autopilot 1, which did not include the FSD option. That was released in October 2016.

 

[Battpower]

How are you missing the $3,000 FSD option on the window sticker? This is how these cars were sold new. $5000 for EAP, $3,000 for FSD. They were separate options with different feature sets.

With the Tesla paperwork for my car and other late 100Ds and Raven S's in UK, Cars with FSD had two line items. Full Self Driving Capable (not necessarily a car with FSD) and Full Self Driving.

So as I was reading the stickers it looked as though it was possible that $3k was not for Full Self Driving, but something else (like hardware capable of FSD.

With EAP already on the car, and at that time (even now) FSD offering nothing extra, that seemed to add to the possibility that the 3000 wasn't for FSD. I nearly bought one of this spec car but EAP seemed to be the same as FSD feature set.

 

[Geek190]

Actually he said the features were removed before he took ownership of the car.

That is true, but it was still after Tesla had sold the car at auction and no longer in their possession.
I feel like they had every opportunity to remove whatever features they wanted to, but once the car was no longer in their possession they have to leave it as is

 

[PACEMD]

I'm sorry if I have offended you, but my point was to show all face-lifted cars (mid2016+) were offered with two AP options and Tesla changed terms in 2019.

I hope you're joking because I was, and I ain't so easy to offend. I appreciated your post but was thinking that 2016 now seems pretty ancient for a Tesla.........why, back in the old days........

 

[Litigate28]

Similar to mattwhite's post found here, this is not legal advice. Just a fell Tesla owner's opinion on a topic that is very interesting.

I fully agree with him on that post and his analysis. As you mention here, the relevant timeline is as follows:

• 3rd Party Dealer buys the car on 11/15/19
• Tesla strips EAP/FSD on 11/18/19
• You buy the car in mid 12/19

The car you bought unfortunately did not have FSD/EAP on it. If the dealer sold it to you on the basis that it did (which is what it sounds like), your gripe is with them not Tesla. They in turn - as mattwhite pointed out - would have to turn to Tesla for compensation because they bought a car based on the representation it had FSD/EAP. You could make a claim against Tesla on a tort basis but I don't think you would get anywhere. On the other hand, you seem to have a pretty easy case against the dealership.

A couple of other quick points:

• I don't believe there is a difference between FSD and FSDC, just dumb nomenclature on Tesla's part. My car came with FSDC and has FSD.
• No set rules on Tesla stripping software from cars that I can find. So whether it is ethically appropriate to do so, they are doing it. At some point it will probably change, but it would require legislation or a court decision that has the ability to set precedent to do so.

Just my thoughts. If I got any of the background facts wrong my apologies, it was a doozy of a thread to keep up with.

 

[MS-Alec]

That is true, but it was still after Tesla had sold the car at auction and no longer in their possession.
I feel like they had every opportunity to remove whatever features they wanted to, but once the car was no longer in their possession they have to leave it as is

This was my sticking point!

 

[ucmndd]

That is true, but it was still after Tesla had sold the car at auction and no longer in their possession.
I feel like they had every opportunity to remove whatever features they wanted to, but once the car was no longer in their possession they have to leave it as is

I think this is the clearest explanation of what’s actually wrong here.

Person who buys car at auction presumably inspects car and observes installed options, then bids accordingly based on that estimated value. Some days/weeks later Tesla decides to remove $8,000 in software options from said car, with no communication nor warning, because they didn’t have their sugar together enough to do it before they actually sold the car.

That incompetence has resulted in the dealer who purchased at auction being defrauded, and in turn the eventual purchaser of the car.

I suspect it’s the dealer that actually has the standing and best case to demonstrate loss - they should refund you the $7k (current cost to replace those features), then go after Tesla for that loss, along with legal fees and punitive damages, etc.

You’re probably gonna have a hard time convincing the dealer to do that though.

 

[PACEMD]

You are making the assumption that Tesla represented that vehicle at auction as having EAP/FSD. You don't have enough information to know if that's true. It's likely not.

 

[Battpower]

a doozy of a thread to keep up with

My head is really hurting and I no longer relate to anything I thought I knew! Well, nearly.

I think this is the clearest explanation of what’s actually wrong here.

Person who buys car at auction presumably inspects car and observes installed options, then bids accordingly based on that estimated value. Some days/weeks later Tesla decides to remove $8,000 in software options from said car, with no communication nor warning, because they didn’t have their sugar together enough to do it before they actually sold the car.

That incompetence has resulted in the dealer who purchased at auction being defrauded, and in turn the eventual purchaser of the car.

I suspect it’s the dealer that actually has the standing and best case to demonstrate loss - they should refund you the $7k (current cost to replace those features), then go after Tesla for that loss, along with legal fees and punitive damages, etc.

You’re probably gonna have a hard time convincing the dealer to do that though.

Yes.

OP saw car as represented by reseller and as sold by Tesla. OP carried out reasonable checks. Tesla changed car spec after they had already sold it.

Yes, dealer would have to persue matter with Tesla, probably pushed by pressure from OP. Messy and unfair.

 

[ucmndd]

You are making the assumption that Tesla represented that vehicle at auction as having EAP/FSD. You don't have enough information to know if that's true. It's likely not.

There isn’t exactly a Tesla representative at each auction articulating each feature available on each car. It’s usually a matter of “what you see is what you get, inspect carefully”.

Yes, Tesla could probably muster a defense if they could produce evidence that they advertised the car at auction with a complete and accurate list of installed options - in which case the dealer is on the hook for the misrepresentation. But in my observation that suggests a level of organization and competence that Tesla rarely exhibits.

 

[PACEMD]

I never said Tesla was not responsible for the confusion here. As I said previously I believe they are. Falsely representing a car at auction is another matter. Car auctions are bastions of misrepresentations. But there is paperwork documenting the car and included options/details. If the paperwork doesn't match what you see at preauction inspection you need to ask yourself why.

 

[Geek190]

I'm taking the OP at his word as far as the timeline and order of events.
I have no idea how Tesla represented the car at auction. Only Tesla and the 3rd party dealer know that.
OP says that (correct me if I'm wrong) the dealer advertised it as with FSD and EAP, and that the car had those options enabled when he test drove it - after auction but before he purchased the car.
Perhaps at auction Tesla disclosed that these options would be removed. If that's the case, they should have been before the car was delivered to the dealer.
I'm not saying it's unlawful, (I am not lawyerly) but it feels very slimy and unnecessarily petty.

 

[Battpower]

I never said Tesla was not responsible for the confusion here. As I said previously I believe they are. Falsely representing a car at auction is another matter. Car auctions are bastions of misrepresentations. But there is paperwork documenting the car and included options/details. If the paperwork doesn't match what you see at preauction inspection you need to ask yourself why.

So if Tesla allowed the car to arrive at and leave auction with 21" wheels, they would have a hard time swapping them for 19s after the auction because they did an audit. Why not same for other features installed at the time of auction sale.

Unless of course auction terms stated 'the specification of this car may change from how it is presented'.

This relates to contract between dealer and Tesla so OP will have to convince dealer to persue it somehow.