-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
The «Full» in Full Self-Driving Capability
- Thread starter lunitiks
- Start date
Great topic @lunitiks.
It's hard for me to really evaluate the new wording and also set aside what I know now about the technical and business status of the company. However, I have had some benefit of chatting some technically-oriented co-workers who are interested in the new developments but don't own a vehicle. The feeling is that there is something fishy about about the FSD description and the actual fine print. Due to the slippery nature of the disclaimer, they don't know exactly what they would get if they ordered it.
On the other hand, a while back I've also spoken to some non-technical co-workers and I think they were more influenced by marketing hype and speculation. One of them thought that the EAP meant fully-autonomous and believed that it could be used reliably on local roads and would stop for signs and traffic lights. He said that his first time using it, he needed to slam on his brakes to stop for a red light when he realised that the car wouldn't do it.
So my hypothesis is that for the mainstream consumer, the fine print means nothing. They will see the words "automatic" and "full-self driving" and believe that the car will become fully autonomous, e.g. you can sleep during your drive to work.
It's hard for me to really evaluate the new wording and also set aside what I know now about the technical and business status of the company. However, I have had some benefit of chatting some technically-oriented co-workers who are interested in the new developments but don't own a vehicle. The feeling is that there is something fishy about about the FSD description and the actual fine print. Due to the slippery nature of the disclaimer, they don't know exactly what they would get if they ordered it.
On the other hand, a while back I've also spoken to some non-technical co-workers and I think they were more influenced by marketing hype and speculation. One of them thought that the EAP meant fully-autonomous and believed that it could be used reliably on local roads and would stop for signs and traffic lights. He said that his first time using it, he needed to slam on his brakes to stop for a red light when he realised that the car wouldn't do it.
So my hypothesis is that for the mainstream consumer, the fine print means nothing. They will see the words "automatic" and "full-self driving" and believe that the car will become fully autonomous, e.g. you can sleep during your drive to work.
RTFM...
You cannot blame the software if someone is too stupid or lazy to ready the manual on HOW to use the software.
Missile Toad
MSLR Wht/Blk/19 | OD 6/10/21 | RN11512
I like to think of the edge cases, where FSD capable, Tesla enabled, and regulatory authorities allow -- here is the start of a list of 100-200 situations where car says, "Dude, take over":
* 0.5% of precipitations that force highway drivers down to 25 MPH to avoid collisions because visibility
* When avalanche or rock falls are present
* When both sides of the street are on fire
* When snow is above 30% of the radius of the wheel
* When standing water > 2 inches is highly likely within 5 miles of your location
* When a parade, drunk college students, or cyclists gathering for a group ride is occurring within view
* When tsunami debris is present
* Sinkholes, earthquakes, and auto accidents present
* When 90% of a bridge superstructure is under pressure from fast-moving floodwater
* When any carcass larger than a 40 lb. dog, is in the lane, w/o adjacent lanes being open.
* When sheep are crossing
Maybe in 10 years, one of these updates (and manual pages) will say: "NEW: This update, 'sheep mode' -- car actively manages sheep herds when present on the highway, and helps other cars get through." (Sorry, my list only goes up to 11).
* 0.5% of precipitations that force highway drivers down to 25 MPH to avoid collisions because visibility
* When avalanche or rock falls are present
* When both sides of the street are on fire
* When snow is above 30% of the radius of the wheel
* When standing water > 2 inches is highly likely within 5 miles of your location
* When a parade, drunk college students, or cyclists gathering for a group ride is occurring within view
* When tsunami debris is present
* Sinkholes, earthquakes, and auto accidents present
* When 90% of a bridge superstructure is under pressure from fast-moving floodwater
* When any carcass larger than a 40 lb. dog, is in the lane, w/o adjacent lanes being open.
* When sheep are crossing
Maybe in 10 years, one of these updates (and manual pages) will say: "NEW: This update, 'sheep mode' -- car actively manages sheep herds when present on the highway, and helps other cars get through." (Sorry, my list only goes up to 11).
Last edited:
I often get asked - oh is that the car that does self driving? Never is the word "full" used but of course it is implied. From the very beginning Tesla has used "auto" pilot and "FSD" inappropriately. My expectation has always been that I will have to stay alert so I won't be disappointed but people unfamiliar with Tesla will be which is going to be a problem. I would much prefer they call it Full Self Driving Assist.
I think I can answer.
2 years ago I received my Ap2 FSD enabled S90D. I skipped some really good deals on inventory Ap1 to get the FSD, like the video we remember. Took me 1.5 years to understand the hoax, Tesla bought it back and now I have an I-PACE.
I think the new marketing means reduced ambitions. Sad for all owners.
Sad that Tesla feel a need to oversell a product that in many ways are better than maybe all competitors at the moment.
They could win so much goodwill and reputation with just delivering the world's best trafic jam assistant.
2 years ago I received my Ap2 FSD enabled S90D. I skipped some really good deals on inventory Ap1 to get the FSD, like the video we remember. Took me 1.5 years to understand the hoax, Tesla bought it back and now I have an I-PACE.
I think the new marketing means reduced ambitions. Sad for all owners.
Sad that Tesla feel a need to oversell a product that in many ways are better than maybe all competitors at the moment.
They could win so much goodwill and reputation with just delivering the world's best trafic jam assistant.
I think your second section was done to avoid the issue in your first section.
Here are out short term (March 15th mabye?) And long term (this year) feature sets. It doesn't mean they are not going for the whole shebang or that their ambition is less.
Isn't that what EAP is good at?
strangecosmos
Non-Member
The naming is a headache. They should have called it SuperAutopilot, or Urban Autopilot.
Having to say full full self-driving shows the name is wrong. I kinda thought or hoped they might change the name when they brought it back to the order page.
Having to say full full self-driving shows the name is wrong. I kinda thought or hoped they might change the name when they brought it back to the order page.
Thank god I wasn't called.
I can go for a hike or something else that's fun.
I can go for a hike or something else that's fun.
Tam
Well-Known Member
There has never been any Full Self Driving in Tesla except for the demo video.
What Tesla sells is the future with that ultimate goal.
Currently, although that ultimate goal has never been reached, the goal is still there and the name is sticking.
It's like taking money to send a passenger to the moon even though SpaceX has no capability to do so right now. It's still a ticket to the moon, not a ticket to test the rocket, unmanned Dragon space capsule on earth...
Thus, the goal is an unreached goal right now so the disclosure says it is "active driver supervision" Full Self Driving, not autonomous currently and unsupervised Full Self Driving will be pending on reaching a number of successful goal posts in future.
boonedocks
MS LR Blk/Blk 19”
As a consumer I would think that I was getting EAP+ capabilities from what was EAP before. As a 3rd Tesla owner since 2015 (Currently 2017 Model S & X both with pre-paid FSD) and having lived through so many #ElonLetDowns I honestly think Tesla has dumbed down the description of FSD so that they can say “officially” they have released a FSD feature or two and can now dip into the FSD Cash Trough as earned income.
Personally this is turning out to be quite a debacle and may turn in to quite a black eye if HW3 isn’t the holy grail Tesla keeps citing. To be completely honest I would still be driving my S85D AP1 if I knew then what I know now. That video and website advertising of FSD was truly a mastermind of illusion to encourage the likes of me to sell a perfectly good car for a new one on false promises.
How about what they call it now, just autopilot and FSD. Autopilot is not self driving, it's help with staying centered in the lane and help parking. FSD is driving without input from the driver. What Tesla created was this donut hole where they threw in self driving functionality where it didn't belong.
No, they've been, as of March 1st, real clear they haven't released any self driving or FSD features yet. They are field testing them now. If all you paid for is EAP you should only get driver assist like lane keep, autopark, adaptive cruise control, lane change assist.
This question was asked in the (non-public) investor call held last week on 2/28 as well. The questioner asked why it was called Full Self Driving:
Tesla is happy to sell you Full Self Driving, even if it's not Full nor Self, and perhaps it's you doing the Driving.
Tesla is happy to sell you Full Self Driving, even if it's not Full nor Self, and perhaps it's you doing the Driving.
Attachments
Ahh, it makes sense now. The “self” in “full self driving” stands for yourself (aka, the driver) and not the car. We’ve cracked the code, time to wrap this discussion up!
What I'm buying? I'm buying bigger brains for my Model 3. I'm not happy with the brains it has, and it needs an upgrade. It even whispers to me that it has small brains, and it wants big brains.
It really wants to recognize things like stop signs, traffic lights, and maybe debris in the road at some point in the future. It really desperately wants to detect a semi trailer crossing its path. It wants big high resolution capable brains so it can see in better detail. It doesn't like that it has to squish everything down into small images because it's small brains can't handle anything bigger. It wants bigger brains to be faster.
It wants to give me lots of dash cam, and sentry mode saves.
It's tired of giving me the wrong speed limit.
It feels so stupid that it can't read such a simple sign.
As its owner I'm obligated to upgrade the little guy.
I don't want a depressed Model 3.
Do you want a depressed Model 3?
It really wants to recognize things like stop signs, traffic lights, and maybe debris in the road at some point in the future. It really desperately wants to detect a semi trailer crossing its path. It wants big high resolution capable brains so it can see in better detail. It doesn't like that it has to squish everything down into small images because it's small brains can't handle anything bigger. It wants bigger brains to be faster.
It wants to give me lots of dash cam, and sentry mode saves.
It's tired of giving me the wrong speed limit.
It feels so stupid that it can't read such a simple sign.
As its owner I'm obligated to upgrade the little guy.
I don't want a depressed Model 3.
Do you want a depressed Model 3?
Similar threads
